Making smart decisions with skills

[Fuma]

WoW (and Rift - and yes I played both; end-game and pvp) simply have more "buttons" available to press, and (as someone also touched on above) I would hardly look at all these "buttons" as opportunities for a player to make smart decisions while playing. They aren't "smart decisions" - they were how you played your class: it's called spell/ability rotation. And if you didn't do it properly you weren't able to play your class/role properly (i.e., tank not holding enough threat, DPS not, well, DPSing enough, etc. etc.). So the only decision was to either a) play bad, or b) play as the class was programmed. Even though PVP was more dynamic than PVE (in the sense that NPCs are far more predictable/learnable than PCs are) there was even still a notion of proper spell/ability rotation when playing vs. class A, or vs. Class B, etc. etc. So yeah, more "buttons" <> "the opportunity to make smart decisions with skills" (or, for you non Access/SQL readers, "<>" = "=/=" ... which is a perversion in any language IMO~~)

It's understandable that some people feel they have no choice in whether or not to perform a combo, or that they feel it's the only choice - but that's simply not true. The Ifrit fight itself is a prime example on making smart decisions or not:

• Do I wait to use a WS/ability, or do I risk getting caught in the animation and get blown up by a plume/eruption that I could have anticipated but simply ignored because I have ADHD or something like that and need insta-gratification by smashing 10 buttons per second?
• Do I stretch out the combo as long as possible (e.g., wait until the Combo-buff - w/e it's called - nearly times out), or do I LOL-I-DON'T-LIKE-TO-PAY-ATTENTION-TO-WHAT'S-GOING-ON-BECAUSE-THE-PRETTY-PINK-LIGHT-ON-MY-ACTION-BAR-IS-TOO-PRETTY-NOT-TO-PRESS~ and try and perform the full combo w/o regards to, well, what the he!! is going on?
• Do I even try to start a combo, or should I just use the first 10sec c/d WS and at least provide somewhat decent DoT while I wait for the right opportunity to do some burst DD with a combo?
• Etc. etc.

Failing to make the right (or, "smart") decision in this fight will either leave you a) dead, or b) nearly dead; and you can't a) do DD or perform your role when you're dead (unless I have a different client installed on my PC or something), or b) are taking unnecessary/unplanned attention away from your healer(s) form the tank which risks the entire fight to begin with. And this is just with the Ifrit fight - Moogle, Strongholds, etc., have different dynamics to them and require different "smart decisions" to be made.

^this

Adding group combos similar to FFXI and being able to have Magic Bursts for those group combos would be a great addition. The real issue SE needs to troubleshoot is fixing response times from player to server, too many times I have heard people dieing to something they were no longer standing on when the attack was triggered.

[Platinumstorm]

^this

Adding group combos similar to FFXI and being able to have Magic Bursts for those group combos would be a great addition. The real issue SE needs to troubleshoot is fixing response times from player to server, too many times I have heard people dieing to something they were no longer standing on when the attack was triggered.

I somewhat agree with this, however group combos also serve as a permanent limitation to what players do within fights. I would rather see some sort of unique team limit break mechanic that is cast less frequently than WS were in FFXI to prevent the system from limiting players. Perhaps, the reason I saw limitations with FFXI's system of it was because even that game had less than optimized network response.

[Fuma]

I somewhat agree with this, however group combos also serve as a permanent limitation to what players do within fights. I would rather see some sort of unique team limit break mechanic that is cast less frequently than WS were in FFXI to prevent the system from limiting players. Perhaps, the reason I saw limitations with FFXI's system of it was because even that game had less than optimized network response.

Yea that's the one thing I do miss about WoW was the automatic response from my abilities. I do not like the delay from them as I may be trying to squeeze them in before Ifrit leaps and so on.

Also Id like to state, I do like the direction this game is taking thus far and I don't want it to become another WoW clone. If I wanted that I'd go play SWTOR (pew pew!).

[Shiggysonson]

I somewhat agree with this, however group combos also serve as a permanent limitation to what players do within fights. I would rather see some sort of unique team limit break mechanic that is cast less frequently than WS were in FFXI to prevent the system from limiting players. Perhaps, the reason I saw limitations with FFXI's system of it was because even that game had less than optimized network response.

WoW dps classes each have one skill rotation for top damage. I don't understand how that's different from having the combo system in ffxiv. If you aren't doing the best rotation you're not doing the best dmg you can do. That's some intense decision making..... =)

[Reaujien]

I somewhat agree with this, however group combos also serve as a permanent limitation to what players do within fights.

So what specifically would you suggest they implement that would deter a "permanent limitation to what players do within fights" that either a) could be executed in such a fashion that would prevent the black and white "you're doing it wrong" or "you're doing it right" (e.g., rotations in WoW, Rift, etc.), and b) that would require the use of "making smart decisions"?

I would rather see some sort of unique team limit break mechanic that is cast less frequently than WS were in FFXI to prevent the system from limiting players.

You mean like the strategic use and coordinating of 2-hour abilities in battles such as Fenrir, Dynamis Lord, etc. etc.? (I know there's a BUNCH more, just can't think of any off the top of my head atm). I too would like something similar in FFXIV!

Perhaps, the reason I saw limitations with FFXI's system of it was because even that game had less than optimized network response.

Perhaps, but then again network limitations and combo/gameplay mechanics are two different things (however, shoddy client/server communications can/will/do greatly affect any and all gameplay mechanics).

I just don't see how you can say there's a lack of opportunities to "make smart decisions" in FFXIV, but in WoW everything you do is a "smart decision"... like remembering to repeat the rotation 20 times; I just don't see it. Yeah, smash-button games like WoW/Rift you have a rotation and it's more involved than "2,3,2,3,2,3,2", but even if it's "1,2, Ctl+2, Alt+9, 3,2, 1" it's still:

"1,2, Ctl+2, Alt+9, 3,2, 1"
...and then...
"1,2, Ctl+2, Alt+9, 3,2, 1"
...and then...
"1,2, Ctl+2, Alt+9, 3,2, 1"
...and then...
NO "AND THEN", THE MOB'S DEAD! Oh, I wasn't paying attention... o.O

[syntaxlies]

^this

Adding group combos similar to FFXI and being able to have Magic Bursts for those group combos would be a great addition. The real issue SE needs to troubleshoot is fixing response times from player to server, too many times I have heard people dieing to something they were no longer standing on when the attack was triggered.

group combos are needed to finally balance the game. If the most powerful attacks were made from 1 of each DD class combined then maybe each class could serve a better role in endgame instead of just selecting which classes is the best dps point for point.

i thought skills chains were coming in 1.21 but im prob wrong.