NIN/MNK difficulty?

[Bourne_Endeavor]

This was a NIN - MNK comparison.
While most melee rotations are rigid (DRG being the best exemple), NIN (and kinda SAM) offers you to switch combos order at will. Ninki mapping is also a very different thing than just "switching buffs" around.
Comparing TAs mapping to maintaining GL and BotD during phase skips/disengaging situations > ?I only rejected the fact that monk would be harder than NIN, every melees are pretty easy to pick up and once you can play one decently you probably can play all 4 of them.

And? I added what I openly acknowledged were my own subjective opinion on the melee job at the end of the post, following my answer to the OP.

You're making a false equivalent. Ninki betters compares with Greased Lightning or BotD management whereas moving your raid utilities to better compliment the group aligns with Trick Attack usage. Overall, none is particularly difficult nor is it more difficult on Ninja. Now you are, of course, welcome to believe otherwise but if you're going to insist Ninjas is harder objectively, you need something to back up that assertion. Posting silly gifs isn't an argument.

[EbonySeraphim]

If there was the same number of parses maybe it would be relevant.

That was a very shallow way to try to discredit perhaps the best way to answer the question. Statistically, once you have a large enough sample size, it doesn't need to get bigger for nothing to change.

Probably because you can't tell if a NIN is good or bad by only looking at its personal dps.

So coordinate when you use TA with the rest of your team? I think you've been pretty hard owned by others here.

This was a NIN - MNK comparison.
[...]
I only rejected the fact that monk would be harder than NIN, every melees are pretty easy to pick up and once you can play one decently you probably can play all 4 of them.

Qualitatively, do you understand the statistical evidence that was put forth? Why the variance between the median DPS versus top 95th percentile DPS performance is a great answer to measure job difficulty?

[SpeckledBurd]

That was a very shallow way to try to discredit perhaps the best way to answer the question. Statistically, once you have a large enough sample size, it doesn't need to get bigger for nothing to change.


So coordinate when you use TA with the rest of your team? I think you've been pretty hard owned by others here.


Qualitatively, do you understand the statistical evidence that was put forth? Why the variance between the median DPS versus top 95th percentile DPS performance is a great answer to for job difficulty?

It's pretty clear that either he doesn't understand it, or he does understand it but he dislikes the results enough that he just wants to discredit it without actually being able to address. It became evident that he couldn't actually refute it he said "You're basically using numbers you don't understand to explain things you don't know. I'll let someone much more patient than me explain you why you're wrong." That's not an argument. That's an ad hominem and a lack of an argument.

It's not worth engaging with him if he doesn't want to engage with other's arguments or even provide a modicum of evidence for arguments of his own.

[Neela]

Probably because you can't tell if NIN a player is good or bad by only looking at its personal dps.

this - dps actually show nothing else but your (more or less) personal output. the truth with randoms sadly looks different its not unusual to meet f.e. RDMs who don't res/heal on their own before they had been asked for support; off heals who rather let people die instead of stopping to dps. smns who won't use con or devo on other caster because it would boost their "rivals", Blms who won't move at all eating every aoe, Drgs who theter melee chars instead Brds etc, etc... just to stay on top of the enmity bar or parsing ranking list. => which proofs that fflog numbers are actually not worth anything - aside of being a ego-mirror. Good player or high quality skill on a cls consists of way more factors than numbers, which fflogs never can calculate, consider or show. I personally would rather run with a 3.8k RDM who is aware of his proactive-support-role on a soloheal-farm run than with a 4.3k RDM who stays tunnel viewed until the healer collapsed or hysterical starts to screams "help me out pls!?" while half of the grp is kissing the ground. What leads us to...

I wouldn't really take any of these FFlogs stats as hard-facts since there's many factors that actually impacts on your dps and just as I said you don't judge a class difficulty nor a player's skill only by its dps.

this sentence is one of the less sentences in your math war-discussion which can be signed without any regrets - everything else is just personal & subjective. fflogs is just an indicator but not a source for hard-facts or any kind of bullet-proofed arguments.

[Shamox]

You're basically using numbers you don't understand to explain things you don't know.
I'll let someone much more patient than me explain you why you're wrong.

[SpeckledBurd]

You're basically using numbers you don't understand to explain things you don't know.
I'll let someone much more patient than me explain you why you're wrong.

Please, explain why I'm wrong. You have yet to post a shred of evidence as to why Ninja is harder, you've just insisted that it is.

[echo78]

Ninja will always be the most overrated job in "which job is the hardest" arguments.

[HiroKirito]

I'm not weighing in on which is harder of the two as imo it's pretty subjective. I mained a monk last tier and moved over to ninja this tier (our ninja stopped raiding and we couldn't find an equal one to replace him) and having come from monk, ninja was insanely easy and familiar to me, all I had to do was get use to the mudra combos and weaving them.

Give me a dragon however and I'm all "AHH! This is so slow, what the he'll am I doing! Dammit I'm animation locked in an AoE" I won't even get started on my feeble attempts to play casters in savage raids

Basically my point Is, are either difficult? No. Is any job. Not really. It's down to what your use to. Faster gcds and positional? You'll have np. Switching over from a whm main that's never played melee? Maybe it'll be a learning experience but you'll get there.

[Hellstorm]

As a person that has leveled both would say ninja is the easier to master but more prone to mistakes mob turn at last second, or lag spike and you bunny a mudra. This is alot more damaging then mnk missing pos or even GL dropping. However monk it much harder with fights where GL will run out and learning to keep GL up at all times is harder then huton for ninja. While i would give the crown to mnk being harder to master by a nose to say ninja is in same boat as sam or rdm is just not true. I also leveled rdm and starting on sam and they are far easier to play then ninja.

[Raiden_Ki]

Think I'll accept the statistics presented here and general opinion that MNK seems to be more difficult because of GL uptime and positionals. I'm surprised because I thought NIN was a pretty busy job with gauge spenders and mudras.