Faking disconnects

[Zfz]

By the time the devs realize there's an issue and halt the penalties hundreds of people across all 60+ servers will be unfairly affected, not to mention network issues aren't always related to DDoS or even related to SE at all.

Which is why I noted my own experience, and stayed out of the DF until my connection problems were fixed.

These forums never cease to amaze me ...

There's a problem, and someone proposes a penalty. Let's discuss the merits of the penalty instead of turning it ad hominen as if that somehow supports your argument.

The original idea was that disconnecting does basically the same thing to the party as leaving early, hence it should be counted as leaving early and get penalties. It takes the idea further and proposes a strike, making the penalty equivalent to declining a queue.

Personally I can support it because I don't think it's "small thing". There are legitimate ways to leave a duty. If one tries to fake a disconnect to avoid the penalty, it's only fair to get a heavier penalty. Now if it is not faked and there really is network connection problems, then why are you even trying to queue, or trying to play the game at all? You should be trying to find out what the problem is, and fix it. If it's outside of your sphere of influence, then report it and do something else, instead of saying "it's not my fault so all of you are obliged to suffer from my disconnects".

[Miste]

Now if it is not faked and there really is network connection problems, then why are you even trying to queue, or trying to play the game at all? You should be trying to find out what the problem is, and fix it. If it's outside of your sphere of influence, then report it and do something else, instead of saying "it's not my fault so all of you are obliged to suffer from my disconnects".

You need two things to play this game that you must pay your own money for. Subscription and internet fees. If I d/c so frequently that the game is unplayable then yeah it makes sense to not bother logging in, but I've had occurrences where I d/c every few hours and I have no idea why or when it will stop and my ISP of course is being obliviously useless. I am not going to not play the game I am paying to play just because I -might- d/c in DF.

That is what vote kick is for, the group can simply replace me if it happens so, no, there is no suffering and any possible suffering incurred isn't the fault of someone who had an unforeseeable disconnect happen that was completely out of their control. It's not like I planned for it to disconnect me.

If I get 90k either because of my internet or the servers themselves I don't deserve a penalty to my game play as it is not my fault and it is out of my control. I've been on skype with people or on other streaming type media and the servers have 90k'd me off while my internet had no disruption in service so it wasn't even my internet that disconnected me in those cases, why should I log back in and end up with a penalty?

I mean I've even had times where my power kept going out randomly and you never know when it will stop. It goes out at say 2PM in the afternoon on Sunday and I lose connection in a DF group, it comes back on around 3PM, okay great, its back. So I wait a little bit to see if it seems fine, then log back in and try to DF, but then the power goes out again 20 mins into the content. How the heck was I supposed to foresee that?

I mean good on you that you chose to stay out of DF all that time until you knew for sure your connection was fixed, but you cannot force that on everyone else and not everyone elses issues are static like yours was and it might be more random, unforeseeable, and also the ISP might not even understand why it is happening. You were luckily privy to the information that it was a damaged cable that may take a bit of time to fix.

I am in control of when I log in and when I queue for DF. No one has the right to tell me "you can't play because you might d/c and ruin my DF". That is a beyond ridiculous demand to make.

You can't just punish people for disconnection problems. The innocent people get it worse because the people with the mentality to fake d/c just don't care and they'll probably be laughing at all the innocent people getting screwed over because of what they caused to happen.

There is one thing I could advocate for and that would be an exemption to the 5 min vote kick timer where you cannot vote kick someone within the first 5 mins of a duty. I feel that the 5 mins should be bypassed IF the player is fully disconnected and therefore it should allow people to kick that person, but no others as long as they are online until the 5 mins pass. I've been in groups where someone lost connection on entry or something then we are stuck missing someone for 5 mins if they don't come back. I've also lost connection on entry lately and the game doesn't let me back in for awhile and I feel bad that it happens, but not knowing the cause I cannot do anything about it. It would be fine if the group could have just removed me if they so chose.

[Airget]

The best way to put it is yes people do fake disconnect but not all disconnects are fake disconnects. Here's one many people may be unaware of that as far as I know your cable company is liable for when it occurs. Weather conditions like rain can add wear and tear to the cable outside. The water seeps into the cable connectors and starts eroding the wiring within. When this occurs you'll end up having predictable moments of disconnecting, for me it would always occur in the afternoon and vary from lasting from 1-3hrs in that time frame.

Basically if you find yourself always disconnecting at X time and you've concluded that it's not your modem or router, odds are your outside wiring needs to be replaced.

[Sarteck]

I've never run into this issue, but I'm a newb, so...

But anyways, thank you to those of you that DO wait. I can't remember what Dungeon it was, but when I was doing one for my MSQ, my power blipped out right before the final boss of the dungeon. As a DPS, I'd been waiting in queue for almost half an hour, and I was devastated that I wouldn't be able to finish the dungeon. I hopped back on (took almost ten minutes, because I forgot my BIOS boots my Linux by default, and had to reboot after the first boot), and my party was there, patiently waiting for me, and said, "we couldn't kick you on your first run!" I was so happy, I could have cried.

Honestly, the overwhelming majority of my experience with other players so far has been extremely positive, with the number of "bad" incidents being able to be counted on one hand. I've been so pleasantly surprised by this (my first experience with MMOs), because I've always heard that many MMO vets were assholes.

[technole]

Those people who say "kick me". In a sense it's harassment to tell people to kick you.

You realize there is a 4-hour cooldown to kick another player once you do it. Those people AFKing in frontlines get kicked, and I'd rather use it where it's warranted because I've ran into situations where I can't kick again, lol.

If you want to leave so bad, you can eat a penalty. No one is stopping you, so don't harass people about it.

[Meraii]

The best way to put it is yes people do fake disconnect but not all disconnects are fake disconnects.

This. The way people talk about it, you'd think everything every other player does is specifically to spite you. :|
Sure, there may be some fake DC'ers out there, but I highly doubt it is the majority.

There are already tools in place to kick offline players. Trying to claim they deserve an extra level of punishment when you don't even for certain know their circumstances is just antagonisitc.

[Zarabeth]

That did make me smile - will have to use in a sentence today.

I agree, this made me laugh. Best line I've seen in a while and I intend to use it also.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Which is why I noted my own experience, and stayed out of the DF until my connection problems were fixed.

This isn't always so cut and draw. Nvidia currently has an issue with its drivers that causes Directx11 errors constantly yet refuses to acknowledge them. I spent the last month or so with entirely unpredictable disconnects. If there were a penalty in place, I could very well screw my raid group since we can't queue even as a pre-made if someone in the party has a penalty. Under your purposal, I'm either forced to downgrade to Directx9, buy a whole new GPU or cross my fingers and hope I don't disconnect. It's that assumption of guilt that makes such a system wholly unfair just to punish the occasional bad apple.

If you want to leave so bad, you can eat a penalty. No one is stopping you, so don't harass people about it.

This is where SE needs to do a better job allowing GMs to dish out punishment. You wouldn't see people demanding a kick if they knew it was a guaranteed ticket to no DF access for 24 hours. It's only an issue because they don't enforce penalties consistently.

[Zfz]

Nvidia currently has an issue with its drivers that causes Directx11 errors constantly yet refuses to acknowledge them.

So you take your chances and when you get another error in the middle of a party content, everyone's supposed to suffer and accommodate you? My EVG A8800GT had an overheating problem and I had to un-overclock it (it was factory overclock) to play FFXIV stably. If you know you can downgrade to DX9 and get a stable experience, why would you insist on using DX11 and cause disruption in group content?

I'm not strongly promoting adding a disconnect penalty, but I can agree with it. I am also of the opinion that unless the problem is on Square Enix's shoulders, you should first try to solve it or work around it before doing goup content.

----

I suppose that's the main difference between the "eastern" way of thinking and "western" way of thinking. If you put "me" upfront, then sure, it's not my fault so you should all accommodate my disconnects. If you put "people" upfront, then you try to avoid causing disruptions. In your eyes I'm being selfish and demand that you degrade your experience, but I'm actually talking from the perspective of someone having the disconnects, i.e., I'm trying to be selfless in upholding everyone else's experience.

I guess I'm in the wrong forum for that.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

So you take your chances and when you get another error in the middle of a party content, everyone's supposed to suffer and accommodate you? My EVG A8800GT had an overheating problem and I had to un-overclock it (it was factory overclock) to play FFXIV stably. If you know you can downgrade to DX9 and get a stable experience, why would you insist on using DX11 and cause disruption in group content?

Because the disconnect is entirely random and inconsistent. I did numerous stress tests but couldn't know if they worked until the game crashed again, i.e., I had to run Directx11 otherwise how do I know it's solved? Keep in mind, these disconnects only trigger when queuing into DF. So before you say "don't use DF," that isn't an option. When I discovered underclocking solved the issue more or less, I did that. So either I permanently downgrade my experience until Nvidia one day fixes it or I test solutions. Your "suffering" is a meager two minutes or less. I think you'll manage.

I suppose that's the main difference between the "eastern" way of thinking and "western" way of thinking. If you put "me" upfront, then sure, it's not my fault so you should all accommodate my disconnects. If you put "people" upfront, then you try to avoid causing disruptions. In your eyes I'm being selfish and demand that you degrade your experience, but I'm actually talking from the perspective of someone having the disconnects, i.e., I'm trying to be selfless in upholding everyone else's experience.

I guess I'm in the wrong forum for that.

Knock off the woe is me nonsense. Your stance isn't selfless. You "can agree with" a system that punishes players who have occasional disconnects through no fault of their own because your experience was temporarily interrupted for two minutes. Furthermore, this idea is rooted entirely on the premise of people willfully disconnecting to escape dungeons they dislike or to dodge the penalty. It's design is inherently to presume guilt wholesale because you may meet a jerk sometimes. Vastly more people will be inconvenienced by such a system than those punished who aren't likely to care about a 30 minute penalty anyway. And this doesn't even begin to factor how American ISPs work. Many places are devoid of choice. You're locked to Comcast or Verzion. If they're having difficulties, your stance means people have to stay out of DF for days, possibly forcing their raid groups to find a sub because a random disconnect means they are locked out of DF.

All because you don't want to be inconvenienced.