Faking disconnects

[hynaku]

Should just cause a DF strike if you get kicked from duty, same thing that stacks up if you withdraw from a DF queue pop, since it's the same effect whether it's a real 90k or fake - you're wasting the time of the pugs in queue.

If it's a real 90k or a real situation to withdraw, then it's not a huge penalty unless you've been constantly 90king/withdrawing all day - at which point you should fix your internet or whatever situation caused you to constantly withdraw from queue instead of continuing to queue. If you constantly get kicked from duties you should probably reflect on yourself why it's happening.

If it's a serial faker then they'd have requeue penalties until the next day so whatever.

I hope you start getting 90k errors every few minutes and then see what other players have to put up with. Before you blame it on there internet. Massive Disconnects they said is from ddos attacks so how is that the players fault.

[Zfz]

You don't always get massive disconnects due to DDoS attacks all year round, do you? When something like that happens, it's more than reasonable to halt the DF penalty count server-wide, just like how certain measures are put in place during expansion launches to manage traffic.

I used to get frequent 90k disconnects back in 2.3 or 2.4 when our connecting submarine cable was damaged. What did I do? I stayed out of DF instead of trying my luck and wasting everyone's time even after knowing that my connection is unstable. If you have an unstable connection, you need to fix it or get your ISP to fix it.

[alimdia]

You don't always get massive disconnects due to DDoS attacks all year round, do you? When something like that happens, it's more than reasonable to halt the DF penalty count server-wide, just like how certain measures are put in place during expansion launches to manage traffic.

By the time the devs realize there's an issue and halt the penalties hundreds of people across all 60+ servers will be unfairly affected, not to mention network issues aren't always related to DDoS or even related to SE at all.

These forums never cease to amaze me with the endless obsession with seeing other people being punished for every small thing, it's like the enjoyment of some people depends on other people being punished.

It's a matter of time before someone asks for perma bans if you don't say hi in a dungeon.

[Zfz]

By the time the devs realize there's an issue and halt the penalties hundreds of people across all 60+ servers will be unfairly affected, not to mention network issues aren't always related to DDoS or even related to SE at all.

Which is why I noted my own experience, and stayed out of the DF until my connection problems were fixed.

These forums never cease to amaze me ...

There's a problem, and someone proposes a penalty. Let's discuss the merits of the penalty instead of turning it ad hominen as if that somehow supports your argument.

The original idea was that disconnecting does basically the same thing to the party as leaving early, hence it should be counted as leaving early and get penalties. It takes the idea further and proposes a strike, making the penalty equivalent to declining a queue.

Personally I can support it because I don't think it's "small thing". There are legitimate ways to leave a duty. If one tries to fake a disconnect to avoid the penalty, it's only fair to get a heavier penalty. Now if it is not faked and there really is network connection problems, then why are you even trying to queue, or trying to play the game at all? You should be trying to find out what the problem is, and fix it. If it's outside of your sphere of influence, then report it and do something else, instead of saying "it's not my fault so all of you are obliged to suffer from my disconnects".

[Miste]

Now if it is not faked and there really is network connection problems, then why are you even trying to queue, or trying to play the game at all? You should be trying to find out what the problem is, and fix it. If it's outside of your sphere of influence, then report it and do something else, instead of saying "it's not my fault so all of you are obliged to suffer from my disconnects".

You need two things to play this game that you must pay your own money for. Subscription and internet fees. If I d/c so frequently that the game is unplayable then yeah it makes sense to not bother logging in, but I've had occurrences where I d/c every few hours and I have no idea why or when it will stop and my ISP of course is being obliviously useless. I am not going to not play the game I am paying to play just because I -might- d/c in DF.

That is what vote kick is for, the group can simply replace me if it happens so, no, there is no suffering and any possible suffering incurred isn't the fault of someone who had an unforeseeable disconnect happen that was completely out of their control. It's not like I planned for it to disconnect me.

If I get 90k either because of my internet or the servers themselves I don't deserve a penalty to my game play as it is not my fault and it is out of my control. I've been on skype with people or on other streaming type media and the servers have 90k'd me off while my internet had no disruption in service so it wasn't even my internet that disconnected me in those cases, why should I log back in and end up with a penalty?

I mean I've even had times where my power kept going out randomly and you never know when it will stop. It goes out at say 2PM in the afternoon on Sunday and I lose connection in a DF group, it comes back on around 3PM, okay great, its back. So I wait a little bit to see if it seems fine, then log back in and try to DF, but then the power goes out again 20 mins into the content. How the heck was I supposed to foresee that?

I mean good on you that you chose to stay out of DF all that time until you knew for sure your connection was fixed, but you cannot force that on everyone else and not everyone elses issues are static like yours was and it might be more random, unforeseeable, and also the ISP might not even understand why it is happening. You were luckily privy to the information that it was a damaged cable that may take a bit of time to fix.

I am in control of when I log in and when I queue for DF. No one has the right to tell me "you can't play because you might d/c and ruin my DF". That is a beyond ridiculous demand to make.

You can't just punish people for disconnection problems. The innocent people get it worse because the people with the mentality to fake d/c just don't care and they'll probably be laughing at all the innocent people getting screwed over because of what they caused to happen.

There is one thing I could advocate for and that would be an exemption to the 5 min vote kick timer where you cannot vote kick someone within the first 5 mins of a duty. I feel that the 5 mins should be bypassed IF the player is fully disconnected and therefore it should allow people to kick that person, but no others as long as they are online until the 5 mins pass. I've been in groups where someone lost connection on entry or something then we are stuck missing someone for 5 mins if they don't come back. I've also lost connection on entry lately and the game doesn't let me back in for awhile and I feel bad that it happens, but not knowing the cause I cannot do anything about it. It would be fine if the group could have just removed me if they so chose.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Which is why I noted my own experience, and stayed out of the DF until my connection problems were fixed.

This isn't always so cut and draw. Nvidia currently has an issue with its drivers that causes Directx11 errors constantly yet refuses to acknowledge them. I spent the last month or so with entirely unpredictable disconnects. If there were a penalty in place, I could very well screw my raid group since we can't queue even as a pre-made if someone in the party has a penalty. Under your purposal, I'm either forced to downgrade to Directx9, buy a whole new GPU or cross my fingers and hope I don't disconnect. It's that assumption of guilt that makes such a system wholly unfair just to punish the occasional bad apple.

If you want to leave so bad, you can eat a penalty. No one is stopping you, so don't harass people about it.

This is where SE needs to do a better job allowing GMs to dish out punishment. You wouldn't see people demanding a kick if they knew it was a guaranteed ticket to no DF access for 24 hours. It's only an issue because they don't enforce penalties consistently.

[Zfz]

Nvidia currently has an issue with its drivers that causes Directx11 errors constantly yet refuses to acknowledge them.

So you take your chances and when you get another error in the middle of a party content, everyone's supposed to suffer and accommodate you? My EVG A8800GT had an overheating problem and I had to un-overclock it (it was factory overclock) to play FFXIV stably. If you know you can downgrade to DX9 and get a stable experience, why would you insist on using DX11 and cause disruption in group content?

I'm not strongly promoting adding a disconnect penalty, but I can agree with it. I am also of the opinion that unless the problem is on Square Enix's shoulders, you should first try to solve it or work around it before doing goup content.

----

I suppose that's the main difference between the "eastern" way of thinking and "western" way of thinking. If you put "me" upfront, then sure, it's not my fault so you should all accommodate my disconnects. If you put "people" upfront, then you try to avoid causing disruptions. In your eyes I'm being selfish and demand that you degrade your experience, but I'm actually talking from the perspective of someone having the disconnects, i.e., I'm trying to be selfless in upholding everyone else's experience.

I guess I'm in the wrong forum for that.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

So you take your chances and when you get another error in the middle of a party content, everyone's supposed to suffer and accommodate you? My EVG A8800GT had an overheating problem and I had to un-overclock it (it was factory overclock) to play FFXIV stably. If you know you can downgrade to DX9 and get a stable experience, why would you insist on using DX11 and cause disruption in group content?

Because the disconnect is entirely random and inconsistent. I did numerous stress tests but couldn't know if they worked until the game crashed again, i.e., I had to run Directx11 otherwise how do I know it's solved? Keep in mind, these disconnects only trigger when queuing into DF. So before you say "don't use DF," that isn't an option. When I discovered underclocking solved the issue more or less, I did that. So either I permanently downgrade my experience until Nvidia one day fixes it or I test solutions. Your "suffering" is a meager two minutes or less. I think you'll manage.

I suppose that's the main difference between the "eastern" way of thinking and "western" way of thinking. If you put "me" upfront, then sure, it's not my fault so you should all accommodate my disconnects. If you put "people" upfront, then you try to avoid causing disruptions. In your eyes I'm being selfish and demand that you degrade your experience, but I'm actually talking from the perspective of someone having the disconnects, i.e., I'm trying to be selfless in upholding everyone else's experience.

I guess I'm in the wrong forum for that.

Knock off the woe is me nonsense. Your stance isn't selfless. You "can agree with" a system that punishes players who have occasional disconnects through no fault of their own because your experience was temporarily interrupted for two minutes. Furthermore, this idea is rooted entirely on the premise of people willfully disconnecting to escape dungeons they dislike or to dodge the penalty. It's design is inherently to presume guilt wholesale because you may meet a jerk sometimes. Vastly more people will be inconvenienced by such a system than those punished who aren't likely to care about a 30 minute penalty anyway. And this doesn't even begin to factor how American ISPs work. Many places are devoid of choice. You're locked to Comcast or Verzion. If they're having difficulties, your stance means people have to stay out of DF for days, possibly forcing their raid groups to find a sub because a random disconnect means they are locked out of DF.

All because you don't want to be inconvenienced.

[Miste]

I suppose that's the main difference between the "eastern" way of thinking and "western" way of thinking. If you put "me" upfront, then sure, it's not my fault so you should all accommodate my disconnects. If you put "people" upfront, then you try to avoid causing disruptions. In your eyes I'm being selfish and demand that you degrade your experience, but I'm actually talking from the perspective of someone having the disconnects, i.e., I'm trying to be selfless in upholding everyone else's experience.

If someone was trying to be "selfless" and really cared about "people" and not themselves they probably wouldn't generalize and insult whole cultures just to try to prove a point in a video game forum.

[Alleo]

So you take your chances and when you get another error in the middle of a party content, everyone's supposed to suffer and accommodate you?

So they should for an unknown time stop playing a big part of the game because they could get an error and disconnect? People can always have days that went by without a single disconnect and then they can have one where everything is fine and suddenly they might have one. If its a normal DC then they should be back really fast and it should not be too much for the people to wait a bit. Punishing a probably way more bigger part of the community for their unwanted Disconnect just because some people are horrible and fake theirs is a really bad idea.