Unclear Primal Elements

[Aosha]

Tentative list of the elemental aspectation of Primals:

What we know for certain:
Ifrit = Fire.
Titan = Earth.
Garuda = Wind.
Leviathan = Water.
Ramuh = Lightning.
Shiva = Ice.
Ravana = Fire and Earth.
Bismarck = Water and Wind.

The following seem unaspected/neutral:
Bahamut (all elements, Astrally aligned?)
Odin
Alexander (looks light-elemented, but that has been stated by Koji to not be an element in XIV: https://gamerescape.com/2017/09/01/l.../#comment-5377)
Thordan
Shinryu (all elements, Astrally aligned?)
Good King Moggle Mog XII (blessed be his fluffiness)

The rest are speculation:
Phoenix seems to be Fire, using some... Light? And did I see some Ice in there too (or maybe it's just Bluefire looking weird? but it does also inflict frostbite)?

Zurvan = Ice and Fire?
Sophia = Wind and Lightning?
Sephirot = Earth and Water/Wind?

Susano = Water and Lightning.
Lakshmi = Fire and Water/Wind???



The point of this thread is to not discuss whether the Warring Triad are elementally aspected Primals. I have seen enough debate on the subject to think that we are unlikely to reach a conclusion without official confirmation. I personally think they are, but there is not enough information to say one way or the other. So please don’t even go there.

I have also seen quite a bit of debate on what Sephirot’s second element would be if the Triad indeed are dual-aspected Primals. The general consensus seems to limit it to Water (backed by Ein Sof bubbles and Ratzon AoEs seeming fluid, the apparent filling of the arena with a liquid during his ultimate, water and soil being the foundations of plant life, and it rounding out the elements of the Triad) and Wind (mostly because of Malkuth, the sneeze attack, and the Storm of Words add it makes). Earth is pretty much a given. Now, this point can still be debated here, but since the elemental aspectation is still being doubted by some players to even apply to the Triad, please don’t go overboard with it.

The one I’d really like to bring to attention here is Lakshmi. She seems to be throwing around blue fire quite a lot, but I have no idea what her second element would be. Any input would be nice here.
As we get more primals in the future, I’ll be adding them to the list, and if we get confirmations on any of this (which I REALLY hope we do) I’ll update this original post.

[Rawrz]

Ifrit = Fire.
Titan = Earth.
Garuda = Wind.
Leviathan = Water.
Ramuh = Lightning.
Shiva = Ice.
Ravana = Fire and Earth, [B] subtle Ice [\B]
Bismarck = Water and Wind,[B] subtle lightning [\B]
Sophia = Wind and Lightning subtle Fire
Sephirot = Earth and Wind subtle Water
Zurvan = Fire and Ice, subtle.... unsure
Susano = Water and Lightning subtle Earth
Lakshmi = Fire and Water, subtle Wind

HW and up primals have a lightly added third aspect. Example, Ice in ravana. Blue butterflys cast blizzard. This is due to the ice aspected crystals in the hive to regulate temperature.

The others, like Bahamut are probaby astral/Umbral.

Bahamut: Astral Fire
Odin: Umbral
Moogle mog: Astral

Etc

[KalinOrthos]

Primals don't necessarily need to adhere to certain elements. That they are is merely coincidence, or is just the fact that they have traditionally been element. They might be able to use some aspects of some elements, but I don't really think they have to adhere to strictly to the rule of "They have to have an element."

A few corrections:

Alexander and Thordan probably have an affinity to Holy: Alexander because of course he does, and Thordan because a lot of his attacks all have to do with light or are rife with holy symbols.
Shinryu appears to be all of the elements. Sort of an amalgation of the powers of all the previous primals. It's unclear.

Lakshmi, Bahamut, Sophia, and Good King Moggle Mog, praise be unto his magnificent pom-pom, are all non-elemental, if only because they embody or exist as some sort of vessel of a certain thing. Sophia is Balance (though uses Thunder magic), Bahamut is Power (as well as being a god of dragons), Lakshmi is Bliss and a sort of Nirvana, and Mog is the embodiment of all things glorious, much like his soft, perfect fun, praise be unto him. Heck, even Ravana is less fire and more battle and destruction.

[Foestriker]

<snip>

There's a difference between what a primal's element and what their theme is and you can have both. Sophia's theme is balance, but her elements are Thunder and Wind.

Now, if you're saying that Sophia (or really, most primals not named Lord/Lady of <element>) doesn't necessarily need to be Thunder/Wind you'd probably be correct, but we're probably not going to see a retread of an old primal with a new element any time soon.

[koichi88]

Thordan primarily makes use of ice and lightning based attacks, with a splash of fire that mostly comes from his knights/ meteor circles.
Alexander is usually a holy elemental summon and he uses that alongside his time theme/element in FFXIV.
As for Shinryu he replicates moves from each of the classic six primals at some point or another. I'd peg him as generally astral/ multiaspected to each element. Fitting for his rainbow scales.

[Daralii]

The others, like Bahamut are probaby astral/Umbral.

Bahamut: Astral Fire
Odin: Umbral
Moogle mog: Astral

Etc

Small correction, I think it was explicitly stated in the lorebook that Bahamut was all elements astrally aspected. That presumably means Shinryu would be the same, though maybe umbrally aspected.

[Aosha]

Small correction, I think it was explicitly stated in the lorebook that Bahamut was all elements astrally aspected. That presumably means Shinryu would be the same, though maybe umbrally aspected.

I'm inclined to agree on the notion of Shinryu having all 6 elements (which I list as "neutral"), but I'd say he is also astral. Astral and Umbral refer to an element being "active" (quickly effective, explosive) or "passive" (slow, lingering effect), and it's hard to be more active than Shinryu.

[Remedi]

Lakshmi seems odd to me, she has a fire attack and a wind attack but everything else seems light or dark

[Eloah]

In the recent interview Koji Fox said Light and Dark are not elements just aspects, so you could, theoretically, have 4 different Primals all with a lightning element but one is Astral Light, another Astral Dark, then Umbral Light, and finally Umbral Dark. I am basing this on what he said though honestly it didn't really seem to answer what Astral, Umbral, Light, and Dark are just that they are not Elements. But as far as the Primals we've seen thus far are the original 6 all had a single Element

Ifrit: Fire
Titan: Earth
Garuda: Wind
Leviathan: Water
Ramuh: Lightning
Shiva: Ice

and Phoenix : Fire (I swear everyone forget him, lol)

The Warring Triad Each have 2

Sephirot: Earth and Water (his attacks and such while not a direct call besides Earth Shaker and Storm of Words, all draw inspiration from Kabbalah, connecting to the Word Tree and Knowledge. Trees are a part of nature which is either the primary or secondary aspect of the element of Earth and Water is usually a representative form of Knowledge, think pitchers and the Ewer card. It is also worth noting his original element from VI was actually Blizzard making him the only Triad member not to keep his original element)

Sophia: Lightning and Wind (While these reasons may be unintentional, they still fit her aspect. Sophia's original element from VI was Lightning and that stayed. Thematically Wind is the exact same as Lightning just not ionized, Lightning and Wind are sometimes combined as one element in some elemental depictions. Also Sophia theme is balance and in order to create Lightning and Wind a certain balance of atmospheric pressure is required.)

Zurvan: Fire and Ice (Zurvan's original element from VI was Fire, and he appears to have gained Sephirot's Blizzard aspect. Zurvan's title in Japanese is Kishin, and a Kishin isn't a good or evil god per se but more like a forceful or fierce god who loves battle and often causes destruction; basically gods that govern aspects that we don't view as beneficial but are a part of the world, like a god of death (Thal) or god of war (Halone). His aspects of fire and ice reflect this somewhat. Not only are they opposites, but the main perception for both is the opposite, Fire is inherently bad and Ice inherently good; but each is just as beneficial or as deadly as the other if generally perceived.{The other 4 elements are a bit of a mixed bag. While they could just as easily be good or bad we generally approach them with both aspects in mind from the start. But as animals, our base instinct is fire is dangerous and Ice isn't, but we as humans with our higher intellect are able to see the benefits and dangers each possesses})

and the initial HW Primals have 3

Ravana: Earth, Fire, & Ice (For what reason these elements were chosen for Ravana is unknown. Possible reasoning could be that: his beast tribe is bug inspired and bugs usually live within the earth, this depiction is very war-like and more war-like "gods" are often depicted having an association with fire, ie Ares. Finally, in mythology Ravana is a devotee of Shiva. Since in the FF universe Shiva is an ice elemental, him having a minor aspect to it might hint at that. This also makes that initial fight kinda funny, lol)
Bismarck: Water, Wind, & Lightning (Bismarck's reasoning for the elements he has seem simpler, they are all aspects of weather, which Bismarck in XIV is said to control. Also there are the facts that; Water is because he is a whale as well as his name being based on a ship [based on a German man]. Wind because he is now a "Sky"-Whale, and Lightning, since it the most common depiction of weather after rain.)

Those are the ones that can be considered definitive. The remained are a little bit more up for interpretation. While it may be hard to find definitive elements for these Primals, figuring out their aspects might be easier

Odin and Alexander appear to be complete opposites as they were in XI. Its easy to guess that Odin is Dark aspected and Alexander Light aspected. But based on their lore and interpretations, Odin seems to be Astral(active) aligned and Alexander Umbral(passive) aligned

As someone earlier said Bahamut is stated to be Astral aligned, and they said that Shinryu is probably Umbral. This seems to make sense given how each was summoned. And as for the two kings, Mog is probably Astral, based on his lore, and Thordan Umbral, based on how he went about doing things.

As for the Two newest Primals, here is what I think is a good interpritation.

Susano: Water and Lightning, Astral & Dark (His Element of Water makes sense considering his beast tribe is water based. Plus his element of Thunder makes sense given his basis is the god of storms in Japanese. The Astral aspect is probably referenced in his actor personality as well as his summoning. Koji Fox said that his summoning is exactly the same as the other primals, and while it might not seem so the Kojin, "actively" worship the treasures used to summon him. His Dark aspect I'm basing mostly on his color pallet but Dark is not always evil.

Lakshmi: Earth and Fire, Umbral & Light (Lakshmi's elements might be more of a stretch since she has no attacks indicating as such, but I'm basing it on both her beast tribe and inspiration. She and the Ananta are snakes a terrestrial creature, they also primarily deal in gemcraft. Gems come from the earth, and fire is use to mold and shape the final product. Lakshmi is also based on the Hindu Goddess of Wealth, Fortune, and Prosperity. Earth and Fire are the prime elements to depict such things; Earth, land and money, and Fire, Passion and Drive. The Umbral aspect is mostly because of her summoning, she wasn't summoned conciously, and because of her overall attitude, "Ignorance is Bliss". The Light aspect is mostly because of her color pallet too, but Light is not always good.

Those are my interpretations anyway

[Aosha]

Snip

My mention of the astral and umbral poles being active and passive comes from the lore book: "In addition to the six elements, there also exist two poles - astral and umbral - which greatly influence the nature of the elements - an astral charge bringing more activity, while and umbral charge resulting in more passiveness. For example, when in an astral state, fire exhibits high volatility, whereas its umbral state is characterized by dryness." (page 9 I think, I've still yet to get the lore book myself {darn you delivery prices}, so I've only seen a picture of said page)

As for Ravana and Bismarck, they are heavily implied to be dual-elemented by the tooltips of the items used to unlock their extreme modes. Bismarck's (Weeping Eye of the Manukmanai) saying it is "heavily aspected to both water and wind", and Ravana's (Burning Eye of Ravana) states it is "heavily aspected to both earth and fire". Now, this is of course no concrete proof that they are indeed specifically just these two elements, but I don't see why they would put these notes in otherwise.

Other than that, that's a really nice reply! I'll need to go back and look at the Phoenix fight again...