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  1. #1
    Player
    bswpayton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    1,918
    Character
    Nic Pay
    World
    Exodus
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Aomine1992 View Post
    This! lol the only melee whos aoe is awful is DRG but the rest of them are great especially SAM which is almost SMN tier of aoe
    Actually dragoon has a 140 potency and 170 potency aoe skill
    (2)

  2. #2
    Player
    bswpayton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
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    1,918
    Character
    Nic Pay
    World
    Exodus
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by bounddreamer View Post
    Boy, there are certain dungeons where mass pulls make sense for aoe, and there are dungeons where they don't make sense depending on your party composition.

    This was one where it wouldn't have made sense.
    Git good
    (2)

  3. #3
    Player
    bounddreamer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    1,598
    Character
    Talya Stormbreaker
    World
    Lamia
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by bswpayton View Post
    Git good
    That's hilarious considering the source
    (2)

  4. #4
    Player
    Sacred_Nym's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    73
    Character
    Sacred Nym
    World
    Exodus
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 90
    Here's my opinion.
    1. A tank who pulls small is insulting the DPS.
    2. A healer who doesn't DPS is insulting the tank.
    3. DPS who don't try to optimize their AoE are insulting everyone.

    Now, these aren't hard and fast rules. Point 3 simply doesn't apply below L40 by an large because so many still don't have AoE. Point 1 also is harder to apply in leveling dungeons specifically because of how tight the sync is. You need to be a lot more careful about how you pull.

    In the ARR leveling dungeons especially (sans the first section of Darkhold) I find multi-pulling is generally detrimental. For the HW dungeons it's doable if both the tank and the healer are gear synced (i150+ generally) but even at sync Vault and especially Gubal can cause problems if even one person in the party isn't on point. SB dungeons, Sirensong and Shisui are more or less the same as the HW dungeons with the only potentially dangerous pull being the double pull immediately after second boss of Sirensong. Bardem's Mettle? Ha! Don't even try it without a premade. I've never seen that go right in DF. Doma Castle and Castrum Abania I find two packs and stop is a good rule.

    When it comes to the 50/60 dungeons though? Wall to wall. Only exception I can think of being first section of Baelsar's Wall with the sky armors and the archers. If you pull wall-to-wall, use your cooldowns and AoE, and still fail, it usually isn't your fault. That's generally, not always but generally on the healer, because god forbid they actually have to do more healing than Largesse+Regen.

    70 dungeons require a bit more care in most groups I find. Wall-to-wall pulls are possible for sure but in a DF pug group it can be sketchy. My rule of thumb is to pull until I've pulled enough that I can't justify dropping tank stance right away. Given that most aren't at i340 (I'm i319 on PLD myself and that's my highest) I find that usually means double pulls most of the time, sometimes a triple pull if the group as a whole is really good.

    Just remember, it's better to try and fail than to not try at all. In fact, failing to try and improve yourself no matter what job you're playing or what content you're doing, is the biggest insult of them all. No one likes someone who isn't willing to try.
    (4)
    Last edited by Sacred_Nym; 09-12-2017 at 12:23 AM. Reason: >1000

  5. #5
    Player
    bswpayton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    1,918
    Character
    Nic Pay
    World
    Exodus
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by bounddreamer View Post
    That's hilarious considering the source
    It was a joke , but regardless big pulls are the norm. If a tank doesn't like big pulls maybe they should play a different job. Wasting an extra ten minutes of people's time because u only wana pull Three adds at a time is Just wrong. Dragoon has four aoes, sam has four aoes. NInja has three, monk has four so I don't understand this melee don't have aoes nonsense. Also tanks have aoes to they should use them. People just make excuses for doing a simple trash pull
    (1)

  6. #6
    Player
    ChameleonMS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    1,040
    Character
    Jordan O'niell
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by bswpayton View Post
    Dragoon has four aoes, sam has four aoes. NInja has three, monk has four so I don't understand this melee don't have aoes nonsense.
    Its not that melee do not have AoE; they (melee) frequently do not use AoE because they fundamentally do not understand that a smaller number hitting multiple targets is more damage that their "strong" skills on a single target. Also, they hate the TP costs because Invigorate and Goad are foreign concepts.
    (1)

  7. #7
    Player
    Ilan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    3,057
    Character
    Kurumii Tokisakii
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    Ninja Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by ChameleonMS View Post
    Its not that melee do not have AoE; they (melee) frequently do not use AoE because they fundamentally do not understand that a smaller number hitting multiple targets is more damage that their "strong" skills on a single target. Also, they hate the TP costs because Invigorate and Goad are foreign concepts.
    Lets be honest the TP costs are a pain in the ass and yes i use invigorate, but that is just a drop if i have another melee or brd/mch in my party who refuse to use aoe and don't use refresh or goad on me. And thats very often sadly.
    (0)
    Quote Originally Posted by Canadane View Post
    Good talk, all. Glad we had it.
    暗闇の力#7805

  8. #8
    Player
    LittleSparrow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    274
    Character
    Lilora Sparrow
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Astrologian Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by bswpayton View Post
    Wasting an extra ten minutes of people's time because u only wana pull Three adds at a time is Just wrong.
    Oh the humanity. A dungeon is taking 10 minutes longer. Whatever shall we do?

    Stop whining, Jezus Christ. It's just 10 minutes. Boo hoo.
    (10)

  9. #9
    Player
    Zojha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    3,565
    Character
    Lodestone Bait
    World
    Pandaemonium
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 1
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleSparrow View Post
    Stop whining, Jezus Christ. It's just 10 minutes. Boo hoo.
    10 minutes every day means 3650 minutes a year means ~60 hours a year. Even if you only run one 5 days a week, that's still around 43 hours, more than a week worth of work for a classic 8/5 job.

    If that's really not a big deal to you, I'd kindly ask you to tell your employer tomorrow that you really don't mind working 40-60 hours a year extra for the same pay, he'll be very happy to hear that.
    (6)

  10. #10
    Player
    MauvaisOeil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    297
    Character
    Jaghatai Dotharl
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Zojha View Post
    10 minutes every day means 3650 minutes a year means ~60 hours a year. Even if you only run one 5 days a week, that's still around 43 hours, more than a week worth of work for a classic 8/5 job.

    If that's really not a big deal to you, I'd kindly ask you to tell your employer tomorrow that you really don't mind working 40-60 hours a year extra for the same pay, he'll be very happy to hear that.
    Withouth considering 10min waste on a 30min run is nothing (as it's 33% to 50% of the time in the dungeon), If you start to consider the game as a job where everything must be done as little much as possible, I have quite bad news for you.
    (2)

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