is it okay to not enjoy big pulls?

[Aomine1992]

Are you serious?


Guess you're not alone.

Melee DPS have AoE skills too, you know, and some of them are pretty good.

I don't know where either of you are getting this idea that melee DPS don't benefit from large pulls (or that they benefit so much less from them than ranged or caster DPS), but you're wrong.

This! lol the only melee whos aoe is awful is DRG but the rest of them are great especially SAM which is almost SMN tier of aoe

[bswpayton]

This! lol the only melee whos aoe is awful is DRG but the rest of them are great especially SAM which is almost SMN tier of aoe

Actually dragoon has a 140 potency and 170 potency aoe skill

[bounddreamer]

Are you serious?

Boy, there are certain dungeons where mass pulls make sense for aoe, and there are dungeons where they don't make sense depending on your party composition.

This was one where it wouldn't have made sense.

[bswpayton]

Boy, there are certain dungeons where mass pulls make sense for aoe, and there are dungeons where they don't make sense depending on your party composition.

This was one where it wouldn't have made sense.

Git good

[Argyle_Darkheart]

Boy, there are certain dungeons where mass pulls make sense for aoe, and there are dungeons where they don't make sense depending on your party composition.

This was one where it wouldn't have made sense.

You said it was Dusk Vigil, so you're wrong. Cute response though.

[Sacred_Nym]

Here's my opinion.

1. A tank who pulls small is insulting the DPS.
2. A healer who doesn't DPS is insulting the tank.
3. DPS who don't try to optimize their AoE are insulting everyone.

Now, these aren't hard and fast rules. Point 3 simply doesn't apply below L40 by an large because so many still don't have AoE. Point 1 also is harder to apply in leveling dungeons specifically because of how tight the sync is. You need to be a lot more careful about how you pull.

In the ARR leveling dungeons especially (sans the first section of Darkhold) I find multi-pulling is generally detrimental. For the HW dungeons it's doable if both the tank and the healer are gear synced (i150+ generally) but even at sync Vault and especially Gubal can cause problems if even one person in the party isn't on point. SB dungeons, Sirensong and Shisui are more or less the same as the HW dungeons with the only potentially dangerous pull being the double pull immediately after second boss of Sirensong. Bardem's Mettle? Ha! Don't even try it without a premade. I've never seen that go right in DF. Doma Castle and Castrum Abania I find two packs and stop is a good rule.

When it comes to the 50/60 dungeons though? Wall to wall. Only exception I can think of being first section of Baelsar's Wall with the sky armors and the archers. If you pull wall-to-wall, use your cooldowns and AoE, and still fail, it usually isn't your fault. That's generally, not always but generally on the healer, because god forbid they actually have to do more healing than Largesse+Regen.

70 dungeons require a bit more care in most groups I find. Wall-to-wall pulls are possible for sure but in a DF pug group it can be sketchy. My rule of thumb is to pull until I've pulled enough that I can't justify dropping tank stance right away. Given that most aren't at i340 (I'm i319 on PLD myself and that's my highest) I find that usually means double pulls most of the time, sometimes a triple pull if the group as a whole is really good.

Just remember, it's better to try and fail than to not try at all. In fact, failing to try and improve yourself no matter what job you're playing or what content you're doing, is the biggest insult of them all. No one likes someone who isn't willing to try.

[dragonseth07]

How exactly are you a slacker for doing small pulls instead of grabbing half the dungeon? Also to that other person. I'm not sure what world he lives in. But maybe he should realize it's not as many as he believes thinks that way. Let's not take a personal view and claim everyone thinks that.

Because we know what an optimal run looks like. In many (probably most) cases, it's a wall to wall pull with a big defensive CD and lots of AoE damage.

But, that is hard and takes effort. So, people opt for worse strategies. So, I called it what it is: slacking.

I'm not saying this maliciously. It's just like never dropping tank stance or using only aggro combos. It's a lack of will to optimize because it's hard.

Edit: I realize that the discussion is less about difficulty and more about fun. However, the end result is the same, regardless of why something does or doesn't happen.

I've met a BLM who refused to AoE. When I asked him why, he said he hated the AoE rotation and it was boring. We ended up kicking him. Regardless of his reasoning, he was holding us back. Did it feel bad to do? Of course. But, that's the way it goes.

[bounddreamer]

You said it was Dusk Vigil, so you're wrong. Cute response though.

What's cute is you thinking all dps have equally good aoe in every situation.

Big pulls wouldn't have made it faster. We cleared the dungeon in a reasonable amount of time despite the WHM dropping.

And just to keep it on topic, a tank shouldn't pull more than they're comfortable pulling. That's what it comes down to, though knowing where big pulls are a smart choice is a factor as well.

[bounddreamer]

Git good

That's hilarious considering the source

[dragonseth07]

What's cute is you thinking all dps have equally good aoe in every situation.

Big pulls wouldn't have made it faster. We cleared the dungeon in a reasonable amount of time despite the WHM dropping.

And just to keep it on topic, a tank shouldn't pull more than they're comfortable pulling. That's what it comes down to, though knowing where big pulls are a smart choice is a factor as well.

All AoE is not made equal, for sure. But, the perception that melee classes have terrible AoE is mostly unwarranted. They are weak in that they can run out of TP quickly (which the pull should be dead before mostly anyway), and some of them have awkward aiming conditions (looking at DRG).

But, all classes are capable of putting out good AoE DPS. Melee classes have a more difficult time of it (so your average terrible DF DPS will suck at it) but they can definitely compete.