Just another thread asking for in-game parsing for ps4 users

[Miste]

ignorant of the opposing view

Not ignorant. They just might be pointing out the holes in the argument you are using because of the fact you cannot possibly know the outcome if SE added an official parser; last time I checked humans cannot foresee the future like in myths and legends.

If they did add one probationary, to test it, and suddenly the game had way more rude people than now, specifically using the official parser to harass, then you could claim you were right, but...how can you claim it yet? It hasn't happened.

labouring under some kind of delusion that just because THEY arent a complete asshole, it apparently means every single person ever that also parses, are not guilty of incredibly toxic behaviour

There are people who are anti-parser that actually do demonize anyone who uses one even if said person never uses it beyond their personal use and never harasses anyone. I mean you have someone in this thread alone who basically reports anyone they 'think' is using one; harassment or not. So you might not be realizing that some people may be defending themselves on this point and not actually claiming that no one is guilty of toxic behavior.

The real question is would that toxic behavior still exist even if the parser didn't?

A parser is just 1's and 0's in a computer, that doesn't turn someone into a jerk all on its own. So toxic behavior is present even without a parser (all of the toxic behavior I've seen while playing this game was nothing to do with parsers and I've been playing for 4 years for example).

The problem is those rude people you may have come across, do you think if they had no parser at all they would somehow not be jerks? We don't know and that's the problem with doing all this guesswork. If a player is a rude player then without a parser they may just find anything else they can find to harass someone with.

Harassment in any form is against ToS so it really isn't any different than now. An official parser does not mean "you have permission to harass".

I posted this in another thread and it basically explains the problem with the argument of "if you add an official parser people will harass more with it".

The only thing I can say is human beings aren't fortune tellers. We can't say one way or the other if the game would turn out worse, better, or end up exactly the same as now with an official parser. We simply do not know unless they add one so doing guesswork or pretending we know how people will behave is pointless.

Before people say "...but WoW...".

Comparing this community to other MMO communities is also pointless because this community is not the same as other ones and vice versa so you cannot use another game to predict behavior in this one unless you did a very comprehensive study on the types of people playing both games, but no one has the resources or time to do such a study. The most we can do is "an educated guess" which is still nowhere near a conclusion based on fact.

[HyoMinPark]

The parsers are there, yes, but it's not a official software developed or endorsed by SE, so the stance of "Dont get caught harassing people with it, and we'll look the other way", becomes alot easier, since you're not "supposed" to have it to begin with.

I love how the "pro-parser" community though seem to have this idea that a official parser wont immensely complicate the harassment reports though, because you're talking about a official software, and it's quite easy to make the case of it being there and official means A) SE wants you to use it, and B) Since they want you to use it, the line between "harassment" and "critique" becomes alot more blurry, because again you're using a officially supported tool to base your "critique" on.

I feel like Miste summed this up quite nicely, but I would like to reiterate: are you clairvoyant? Can you see into/predict the future? How do you know that reports wouldn't be just as they are now? The argument many "pro-parsers" make in this thread is that, if SE developed and implemented an in-game, official parser, reports on blatant harassment (whether they involved said parser or not) would still be taken seriously and investigated. You make it sound almost as if this would not be the case if a parser was introduced and implemented.

I also find it frankly astounding how many of you can only point to your own positive experience with parsers among friends and the like, while simultaneously crying foul over the people opposing parsers because of their negative experience with it.

And yet, no where in this thread have those that are "anti-parsers" have shared any of their own negative experiences with regards to parsing. Instead, they tend to just paint all "pro-parsers" with the same brush, insinuating that "well, that one guy I met who parsed was a jerk, therefore, all people who parse are jerks.". They don't add anything constructive to the argument of why they're against parsers other than gross misconceptions, generalizations, and just, in general, negative attitudes. No one in this thread who is "pro-parser" said that all people who parse are saints, and that the bad apples are a lie. Everyone one who is for parsers has recognized and noted that these jerks exist. But, rather than allow one or two players to paint the picture of the entire pro-parser community, instead we ask for those who are so hellbent that all people who parse or who want to parse be banned indefinitely, to be a little bit more open-minded, and stop painting us all with the same brush.

I'm sure that you probably don't like people making negative generalizations or assumptions about you. Perhaps you should try to empathize with those of us who don't appreciate being called jerks just because John Doe from Jerkland decided to harass Mary on her supposedly subpar DPS.

Again, Miste summed this up quite nicely: the "toxic" behavior is already present, with or without a parser. Those inclined to be jerks will continue to be jerks without a parser, or with one. My experience, most people that were jerks in this game never brought DPS or parsing into the picture. They were just being jerks for the sake of being jerks (an example: when Weeping City was new, and people kept pulling Ozma while the alliance was trying to explain mechanics to the plethora of new people in the raid because "I don't have time to wait for silly things like helping other people with new fights and new fight mechanics"; parsers and DPS output was never mentioned here).

I have no reason to believe that as soon as SE drops the act and openly allows parser use, we wont see PF groups with "DPS over X, or kick", and the associated hostility once people are "sub-optimal". Because god knows if you enjoy min-maxing yourself to hell and back, you apparently have the right to impose it on every single person you come across.

These already exist. So, your point in bringing them up is...?

Again, no one is saying everyone will suddenly become Mother Theresa in this game if an official parser is introduced. Stop making false inferences.

I enjoy min-maxing myself, but I have many friends that are fine just playing super casually--they don't care about BiS, they don't care about Savage, they don't care about DPS, they don't even care about current or past Ex primals. Do I force my min-maxing playstyle on them? No. Do I force it on randoms? No. I do, however, encourage people to look into ways for self-improvement, no matter what job they play, because what's wrong with wanting to improve? However, if someone is fine being "just average" or "just as they are," well, then that's their choice. I don't agree with it, I don't understand it, but I don't harass or shame people about it.

I regret getting involved in this topic, and it's a misstake I'll be rectifying immediately, as I have much better things to spend my time on then arguing with people both uninterested, and ignorant of the opposing view

Uh, okay? Pot calling the kettle black here, by the way, with that last sentence of yours. You seem pretty ignorant of the "pro-parser" side of things yourself.

Your input has been noted. Now do me a favour and toss some at the people who went on page upon page of "WHY DONT YOU AGREE?!?!?!" just because they cannot fathom how someone couldnt have the same positive experience they had parsing among friends, when playing with complete randoms, and are labouring under some kind of delusion that just because THEY arent a complete asshole, it apparently means every single person ever that also parses, are not guilty of incredibly toxic behaviour

Actually, the majority of this thread is more like: "Parsers are bad! I may or may not have had a bad experience with them, therefore everyone who parses are bad people, and deserve to be reported and permanently banned from this game! I don't care if they use parsers for good/guides/theorycrafting/self-improvement! They are all bad!" You literally have one person who goes around reporting players based on "a hunch" that they may be "checking numbers," and who is advocating that people be banned because they stream their raids on Twitch or wherever and you see ACT in the corner. I fail to see how you missed that several-page argument.

The people arguing in this thread are, again, arguing against these select "anti-parser" posters to stop painting "pro-parsers" with the same brush.

Either way, I'm gonna bugger off, since this echo chamber is getting rather blatant.
But I can say with certainty, that if SE ever implements a "official" parsing tool, it'll be the day my sub ends, permanently.

Umm. Okay?

[Selova]

snip

I don't know what kind of fantasy world you live in, but people don't need parsers to be giant douches and call other people out. Toxic players who berate others will always find a way to insult others. The hilarious part is that you don't realize that you are acting just like the toxic players you complain about, kind of sad really.

[DaulBan]

I think the biggest issue at hand is one of parity really. Despite the fact that SE has a don't ask don't tell policy about things, PC users have the option to use a parser, console users don't. Whether you think parsers make people jerks or not or enable them is sort of moot: for the entirety of the PC playerbase if they really wanted that ammunition to be a jerk they would be doing so. Adding PS4 users to it would just expand the pool of people who have the option, and unless people think console users are trash goblins that love spewing hate the issue is kind of moot.

Regardless of whether you like parsers or not, SE's stance and the ease of access means that as of right now the issue of whether or not introducing parsers makes people act like jerks is kind of irrelevant. For PC users the choice is the status quo and has been for years. For console players who are interested in their DPS, this just looks like a case of it being unfair.

To sort of shore up my point: regardless of the fact that SE doesn't have an official parser, unofficial alternatives perfectly fill the gap, but only for a proportion of the audience (PC users). The remaining part of the fanbase (the PS4 install base) is perfectly valid for wanting something that the rest of the community has.

[akaneakki]

Let me put this simple. 99.99% players use parser to improve themselves, which is something I don't pull out of my ass. If you want to clear savage or extreme content, which has a dps restriction to them, you better play good or not waste peoples time getting the enrage all over again and again. You don't have the right to clear content just because you pay the sub. If you can't sort your own weight out, don't moan about it, that's your own fault. Team play is a thing in this game, so act like it, instead of saying 7 others people need to carry your weight because you simply tried your best or better yet dont want to be ''elitist''. Meh some people don't get it and never will. If you want to clear shit, don't expect people to play for you, so stop act like it.

[RLofOBFL]

I was in a random O1S practice group that met enrage 5 times. I was second highest in damage as a tank...You know what would've helped them? Parsers.

I legit felt so bad I couldn't help clear for them because they had mechanics down pretty well.

[AlexionSkylark]

snip

The point and premise of my post is that there won't EVER be an official in-game parser in this game that lets you see how others in your party are performing. The game is meant to be inclusive, not exclusive. They have a clear stance on that kind of behavior, which is exactly why they adopt this "don't ask, don't tell" policy. They want us to keep our performance to ourselves, or tight-knit static groups at most (possibly because then it is impossible to control). Other than that, it is not nor will never be OK to shun, kick from party or badmouth fellow players for reasons of performance.

SE, Yoshi-P and the devs as a whole take the official stance that they are AGAINST this behavior of "removing weakest links". Based on all official responses given to this parser subject, that is tantamount to harassment. So you and everyone else can quite surely give up hoping they will ever provide an official way of judging your fellow party member's performance. Again, SE won't ever, EVER, EVER endorse this thought process (by providing an in-game tool to be used for that purpose). This entire discussion is pointless and will ammount to absolutely nothing. As all others that came before.

I hope I made myself clear now.

[akaneakki]

I was in a random O1S practice group that met enrage 5 times. I was second highest in damage as a tank...You know what would've helped them? Parsers.

I legit felt so bad I couldn't help clear for them because they had mechanics down pretty well.

I would feel bad too, many times that have happened to me as well like in other fights as well. But you know, a certain person here would probably try to report you for asking them to improve, you know because you have a hint using a parser .

Joke aside, people who wants to clear badly but never figure out why it enrage, I would gladly help them, but since I don't know every class I can't speak for everyone, just a few of the classes I know that I could help them on.

[DRHaymaker]

The point and premise of my post is that there won't EVER be an official in-game parser in this game that lets you see how others in your party are performing.

An official SE branded parser? No, Probably not. Will there be tools available that allow for ingame parsers? Far more likely.

The game is meant to be inclusive, not exclusive.

Again, you're arguing a social problem, not with any mechanics of the game. There are plenty of things in game like "Duty Completed" that fosters an exclusive attitude, and "Bonus shaming" as a form of toxicity. Even the most casual of raiders who mostly PuG raids experiences this at some point, and condones it by staying silent - the same kind of thing that you would fear happen if parsers were allowed in any official capacity.

They want us to keep our performance to ourselves, or tight-knit static groups at most (possibly because then it is impossible to control). Other than that, it is not nor will never be OK to shun, kick from party or badmouth fellow players for reasons of performance.

Well it is a multiplayer game - you can't keep performance to yourself in any group. Sometimes it's super evident when you're not performing (bard crit buff for example), and you can't keep that to yourself. Also again, you can be kicked for "play style differences" - players are wholly within their right to do that.

Based on all official responses given to this parser subject, that is tantamount to harassment.

Everyone is so quick to self-victimize and cry harassment these days. Call me cynical to not buy into their victimhood at face value.

Again, SE won't ever, EVER, EVER endorse this thought process (by providing an in-game tool to be used for that purpose).

If SE ever does stay true to their word and gives the tools for people to create addons, they will.

This entire discussion is pointless and will ammount to absolutely nothing. As all others that came before.

Most discussions on this board are pointless - but you're not here for a discussion, you're here to repeat your diatribe and shout over people's heads. That is truly pointless.

[AlexionSkylark]

If SE ever does stay true to their word and gives the tools for people to create addons, they will..

What are you talking about? Yoshi-P already stated multiple times that he will never allow for addons in FFXIV