Question on DF expectations

[tinythinker]

If a run, for me, normally takes 15-20 minutes, adding another 10 to 15 minutes means a run of 25 to 35 minutes. That's nearly two runs that could have been done in the time to get one done. While I wouldn't leave, I'd not be happy either. My time was wasted for no other reason other than someone was potentially too lazy to learn their class.

Playing the game on and off is fine and isn't the issue. I don't ride a bike every day. I don't suddenly forget it, either. You don't learn rotations per dungeon- you learn rotations per situation and most of those situations are melee- 4 or more? AoE!

We're also not talking top-of-the-line DPS, either. Just, actually AoE when AoE is needed. Most people that do "bad DPS" in dungeons do things like single target DPS, even with 8+ mobs up because 'they are a melee DPS and melee DPS can't AoE.' They can. They're actually better than the casters in the right hands, they're just not sustainable. However, you don't need sustain DPS when it comes to AoE. I don't even mind smaller pulls- just don't stop.

I'm more likely to help someone who actually asks. Most people don't ask and if you say anything, they go full hostile. Which makes me want to leave by AFKing for 10 minutes, getting vote dismissed, or vote dismissing them myself. I don't have the time to babysit an onry player, or even a player that says that line about their sub, acting like it's somehow more important than the other 3 people they are in party with.

The beauty of it is that you don't need to know every aspect. Do you know how to AoE? Can you dodge bad? Can you keep up with the rest of the group? That's really all you need.

When it comes to me, I have the mentality of always go ham and don't practice bad habits. It's really easy to enforce bad habits and very hard to break them. I generally hope anyone else using DF has the same expectations to that degree. It really sucks getting people that refuse to AoE; it makes me work harder, be it I'm on WHM or RDM. Also, when I run roulettes, I'm not there for the social aspect of the game; I want tomestones and I want them as quickly as I am able to gather. Pleasantries are, well, 'pleasant' (not a fan of people, so this is subjective for me), but I want to reach the end of the dungeon ASAP.

I note your bolded portions, but I would throw some things out to consider. Not to launch some long debate, but just things that occur to me (that you may already agree with) for people reading the thread to reflect on.

1. It isn't just *your time* or *my time*. That new player, or long-time player who isn't as practiced or skilled, or the one who has performance anxiety, etc, etc is also taking their time to get a clear, earn tomes and gear drops, and maybe also to enjoy the art, the music, and meet people. They have a different capacity for how fast they can run, or maybe they have different priorities for the run even if they *could* qualify in terms of gear, skill, experience, etc. for a group trying for a world record time for that instance. Now you called out lazy players who you feel waste your time, and I agree that if a player just doesn't try that sucks and should be called out, but there's lots of reasons for slower runs that don't involve laziness.

2. Sequential repetition is better than sporadic repetition for learning. To use your example of riding a bike, if I start to learn, but then don't try to ride again for a month, and get back on, the ride will be wobbly. If I start to learn to ride a back, and do it every day for a couple of weeks, it will become muscle memory. That's as far as the bike analogy works, as there are many types of memory involved in learning jobs and instances. Applying that to the game, if you have used DF or run with premades in 5-10 instances per week over six months, the odds are good that this sequential repetition has burned your rotations and where to stand in fights into your brain. If you play a few weeks doing the occassional DF, then are away a bit, then come back while, then are gone again, you will still of course improve, but, the improvement will be irregular (some things you do or remember well, others you don't) and it will take longer. Ironically, a toxic DF atmosphere, whoever is to blame, discourages sequential repetition, getting a sense of bearing, and getting value for your mistakes. (People learn faster if they feel it is OK to make mistakes once in a while and if they are open to friendly corrections and advice.)

3. Not all bosses are the same with mechanics. One of the reasons I and other players can jump into DF and do a halfway decent job even if we haven't seen that instance in a long time is because yes, many mechanics and markers are mostly the same, AoE puddles-cones-columns are bad, and you always have to be out of the AoE well before their animation triggers. However, players get bored, so SE puts in special tricks, traps, and markers for many bosses, and yes, if you can't remember the details of a boss fight, that means you can hurt or wipe your party because of that one-off mechanic. It happens. The question is how the returning/intermittent player reacts and how the rest of the party responds.