Question on DF expectations

[Bourne_Endeavor]

snip

The same "use PF" applies both ways. I do adjust based on whatever I get but frequently play tank to dictate the overall pace. I don't assume anything, let alone it's out of spite. I simply dislike the assumption people have lately that DF isn't a free-for-all. Who I quoted implied it should be the expected normal for people to "enjoy the dungeon." That is what I was responding to.

[Krotoan]

The same "use PF" applies both ways. I do adjust based on whatever I get but frequently play tank to dictate the overall pace. I don't assume anything, let alone it's out of spite. I simply dislike the assumption people have lately that DF isn't a free-for-all. Who I quoted implied it should be the expected normal for people to "enjoy the dungeon." That is what I was responding to.

your earlier post does imply you're adaptable to whatever comes your way as long as people are trying, yes, and credit is due there. I'd say the expected normal for DF would be "expect people who are seeing this for the first time and will have varying levels of interest and/or difficulty with the new content. " this may include people who are trying to "Enjoy the dungeon". And indeed, if you have problems either way, PF is the way to go. But I can forgive sprouts more for not knowing this than people who would rather do "optimal" runs. That kind of implies you should know more about how the game flows and what things you can do to limit your experience to what you want.

[Altena]

Yes. Speed is the key indicator of a good run.
Because a good, clean run with everyone doing their job properly will be faster.

That being said, baby pulls are fine. I won't leave a duty because of them.
The odd wipe is fine, because humans make mistakes.
However what determines a "good run" for me is how fast it's cleared.

If wipes or deaths happen due to failed mechanics in a duty, I generally just live with it and try to explain the fight / reason we wiped or failed.
If wipes or deaths happen because players just don't know basic functionality of their job at level 70 (or even 60+), then that's a different story.

In terms of players who are just not very skilled.. My biggest gripes are-
- DPS not doing AoE on big pulls.
- Tanks losing hate.
- Tanks not using buffs.
- Healers doing NOTHING between heals.

If those basic functions are not done, I will speak up (a few times if necessary).
Generally in a manor such as..
"Hey xxxx, can you please use AoE skills when the tank pulls 4 or more mobs."

[Ilan]

What do you think is acceptable?

Tanks who can tank, including proper usage of defensive cooldowns and keeping hate. Healers who can keep their group alive and at least try to do some dps IF the party/tank allows to do so. DPS players who at least know a bit of their class and don't just use single target skills. This is acceptable for me. Do i get that often? No.

[Taika]

Tanks who can tank, including proper usage of defensive cooldowns and keeping hate. Healers who can keep their group alive and at least try to do some dps IF the party/tank allows to do so. DPS players who at least know a bit of their class and don't just use single target skills.

My expectations are pretty much the same. Basically: know the basics of your job and put in some effort for your team. If you're a tank, you should know how to pull, use your cooldowns, keep hate and do some DPS. If you're a healer, you should keep people alive and do at least a bit DPS when possible. If you're a DD, you should know your basic single target / AoE rotation, use your cooldowns and also use your non-DPS abilities when needed.

For pulls, I expect the tank to do them according to what the party is capable of. If they're pulling just one group at the time and it's obvious the DPS is high and everything is going smoothly, I expect them to try pulling more to increase efficiency. If the tank is pulling many groups at once and the party is obviously struggling, I expect them to pull less for safety.

On yeah, and I expect everyone to be reasonably geared too. Not wearing level 20 stuff for level 50 dungeons etc.

I don't care how long the run takes if people are putting in effort and are accepting advice on how to improve if they are having issues.

[Ilan]

My expectations are pretty much the same. Basically: know the basics of your job and put in some effort for your team. If you're a tank, you should know how to pull, use your cooldowns, keep hate and do some DPS. If you're a healer, you should keep people alive and do at least a bit DPS when possible. If you're a DD, you should know your basic single target / AoE rotation, use your cooldowns and also use your non-DPS abilities when needed.

For pulls, I expect the tank to do them according to what the party is capable of. If they're pulling just one group at the time and it's obvious the DPS is high and everything is going smoothly, I expect them to try pulling more to increase efficiency. If the tank is pulling many groups at once and the party is obviously struggling, I expect them to pull less for safety.

On yeah, and I expect everyone to be reasonably geared too. Not wearing level 20 stuff for level 50 dungeons etc.

I don't care how long the run takes if people are putting in effort and are accepting advice on how to improve if they are having issues.

I agree but sadly this didn't happen often the last weeks. Most of the times i get tanks who don't use cooldowns and/or can't keep hate, healers who can't heal properly, dps who literaly just use single target skills during pulls of 3+ mobs.

Not to mention the tank who was in a level 61 or 63 dungeon with an ilvl around 130! SE set ilvl requirements for the dungeons already...

[Starflake]

I did notice a change in player skill / performance since Stormblood. See a lot less Dragoons not using Heavy Thrust, Monks keep their stacks up, Sumonners use Aetherflow ... What I do see a lot of still is people not doing their positionals in low level content. I don't know if they don't do it out of boredom or because they are not aware. Having done almost 1200 mentor roulettes, I must say that in almost all cases, the party is actually quite decent. I think this doom and gloom of bad DF people is overrated. In Extreme content, on the other hand, well I've seen some terrible stuff there, very irresponsible players.
Personally, I just expect all players to be fully activate and dedicated and not stand there auto attacking half of the dungeon. Do the basics right, DPS a bit as a healer, dictate a nice pace as the tank and I'm golden.

[Krotoan]

Did we finish? People tried their best to do their job and if criticism was given was it constructive and/or followed?


We're good.

And I always appreciate a heads up if someone is new to a duty or needs a brush up. Glad to help, or at least wait while someone else explains. I also have no problem with more than one attempt if people are genuinely trying.

[Worldofwarcraft]

if it helps my duties always go well :c

[Zfz]

Expecting a fast run in anything but the current Expert Roulette is stupid. Even the 50/60 Roulette is also full of first-timers who are still leveling and won't necessarily have gear comparable to syncced people. A regular newbie will be going through all the 2.x Lv 50 dungeons in at most 110 gear, and 3.x Lv 60 dungeons in at most 240 gear, while vets will easily be wearing equivalent of full 130 and full 270.

Not to mention newbies will most likely have trouble trying to remember all those end-game dungeons in such as short span of time. We had months to get used to each dungeon and that leaves a strong impression. But people who are going through all the level 50 dungeons within a week? Most likely they're overwhelmed by all the guides and info by the time they get to 2.5 dungeons and have difficulty remember which is which.

Same for level 60 dungeons.

Hence it is stupid to expect fast runs in anything but the Expert Roulette, and kicking a DPS for something like, say, doing the same as a veteran tank geared to the teeth is just as stupid.