Question on DF expectations

[AlexionSkylark]

DF is a place where you go to CARRY people in exchange of tomes.

Simple as that. That was the intent design behind it, that's why it exists.

Trying to deny that is fooling yourself. You're there to carry the newbs and getting something in return for your trouble - tomestones.

So there's no point in expecting anything from there, you just go, do what you need to do, and if the run was fast and eventless, OK, profit. If it wasn't, it's PAR FOR THE COURSE, you just shrug it off and remember WHY you're there in the first place.

[Gemina]

DF is a place where you go to CARRY people in exchange of tomes.

Simple as that. That was the intent design behind it, that's why it exists.

Trying to deny that is fooling yourself. You're there to carry the newbs and getting something in return for your trouble - tomestones.

So there's no point in expecting anything from there, you just go, do what you need to do, and if the run was fast and eventless, OK, profit. If it wasn't, it's PAR FOR THE COURSE, you just shrug it off and remember WHY you're there in the first place.

You do have an expectation though. You queue expecting to carry people. It's a cynical expectation, but an expectation nonetheless. These kind of expectations are usually manifested as a result of them previously being too high; the consistent inconsistency has them grow bitter. It's difficult to dispute this when you make claims like the intent and existence behind DF is players of greater skill are there to carry others of lesser skill. If this isn't an superiority complex, I don't know what is.

DF doesn't exist for players to carry other players. I mean seriously, what kind of Debbie-downer attitude is that? It's there for players to help each other because everyone has a reason for using the DF. Whether it's for tomes, a quest, farming glams/cards/mats/etc. everyone, and I do mean everyone queues up with the expectation to clear the instance. And from my view point, anyone with a bad attitude is being carried. Regardless of their skill level.

[dragonseth07]

Know your stuff. Play reasonably well. Those are my expectations.

I kick people in DF like it's my job. I refuse to carry people through content and let them pollute the DF even further. It sucks having to wait for new tanks and healers sometimes, but people need to know when they are bringing the team down so they can fix it. If I am playing like shit, I expect similar treatment.

A good run is a fast, clean completion. I really don't care about chat or anything like that.

[tinythinker]

I refuse to carry people through content and let them pollute the DF even further. It sucks having to wait for new tanks and healers sometimes, but people need to know when they are bringing the team down so they can fix it. If I am playing like shit, I expect similar treatment.

So what qualifies as being "shit" and "polluting" the purity of DF?

If I forget or am just out of practice on a boss fight, and there are some close calls or a single wipe, does that qualify? Does it qualify if I told the party at the start that it's been a while? If the healer or tank can't do massive pulls, is that player ruining the run because you have to go through the instance more slowly?

I am not dismissing or mocking your position, but it's very vague. That's why I tried to give examples in the OP. "Know your stuff" and "play reasonably well" can mean very different things to different people. I personally don't think the above makes a player's effort shit, but I can only speak for me. I know for a fact that many players would think such situations are hellish crosses they must bear. Which is why I think it's good for people talk honestly about what they expect.

[Galgarion]

I don't think there's really a set expectation for groups other than SPEAK UP IF YOU'RE NEW. It irritates me that people would fail silently rather than admit they don't know something. That's toxic pride. You're not gonna get kicked if it's a DF group, so speak up so I can make the healers explain the fight.

[NekoNova]

I use the duty finder because I want to run the content I have selected through it.
Sometimes this is just getting a clear, sometimes this means learning a new fight, sometimes this just means running whatever to get the tokens.

Do I expect people taking the Expert roulette to "gtg fast, clear in 10 mins"? Nope
Do I expect people taking the Trials roulette to know the fight Blindfolded? Nope

I do expect people that pick DF to have the correct gear equipped, to understand the basics and mechanics of their class.
And I expect people to be honest about their experience.
First time doing an instance? Say so, the bonus is giving it away anyways that you're new.
I simply don't expect anything from DF because as stated above, everyone and his pony joins it.

This also means:

1. Don't force your tank to run faster than he's comfortable with
2. Don't force your healer to DPS if he isn't comfortable with it
3. Don't punish DPS for performing badly

Instead ask people if they are open in doing so. Teach them what they are missing.
Too often I get negative cupcakes that ruin the experience for the whole group

You really can't wait those 10 additional minutes?
Then I'm sorry, but the DF is not for you.

[SuperZay]

Teach them what they are missing.
Too often I get negative cupcakes that ruin the experience for the whole group

You really can't wait those 10 additional minutes?
Then I'm sorry, but the DF is not for you.

You've all seen it before. You see that BLM casting only Fire 3 until out of MP and then they transpose and repeat it over and over. Or that WHM that casts Cure II as soon as tank's HP drops to 95% and never does DPS for some reason. That Warrior that refuses to use Defiance because they say it reduces their damage output and they don't need it for enmity gain. DPS who don't AOE on 6-8 mobs etc, etc.

Then you tell them what they're doing wrong and they often reply to you with "DON'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO" or "I can play the game however I want you elitist jerk" or even nothing at all or they leave the group entirely or vote dismiss you.

[NekoNova]

You've all seen it before. You see that BLM casting only Fire 3 until out of MP and then they transpose and repeat it over and over. Or that WHM that casts Cure II as soon as tank's HP drops to 95% and never does DPS for some reason. That Warrior that refuses to use Defiance because they say it reduces their damage output and they don't need it for enmity gain. DPS who don't AOE on 6-8 mobs etc, etc.

Then you tell them what they're doing wrong and they often reply to you with "DON'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO" or "I can play the game however I want you elitist jerk" or even nothing at all or they leave the group entirely or vote dismiss you.

I know.
I've ran into them before.
But I still consider them to be a minority, and keep going because the majority of people I run with are good players, even if they are new, they learn.
It's just easier to remember the bad experiences than the good ones.

[tinythinker]

I use the duty finder because I want to run the content I have selected through it.
Sometimes this is just getting a clear, sometimes this means learning a new fight, sometimes this just means running whatever to get the tokens.

Do I expect people taking the Expert roulette to "gtg fast, clear in 10 mins"? Nope
Do I expect people taking the Trials roulette to know the fight Blindfolded? Nope

I do expect people that pick DF to have the correct gear equipped, to understand the basics and mechanics of their class.
And I expect people to be honest about their experience.
First time doing an instance? Say so, the bonus is giving it away anyways that you're new.
I simply don't expect anything from DF because as stated above, everyone and his pony joins it.

This also means:

1. Don't force your tank to run faster than he's comfortable with
2. Don't force your healer to DPS if he isn't comfortable with it
3. Don't punish DPS for performing badly

Instead ask people if they are open in doing so. Teach them what they are missing.
Too often I get negative cupcakes that ruin the experience for the whole group

You really can't wait those 10 additional minutes?
Then I'm sorry, but the DF is not for you.

Can we count those who have been away or don't run certain content very often among those who NEED to speak up? I've seen some players rant in various venues that if you have jobs at 70 you must have everything down perfect and know it all. But I've also seen many players in DF who come and go for various reasons and are rusty or who may have only been in an instance once or twice (or not for months). And they don't all have a returner's crown (or it wore off). I think these players may be embarrassed to speak up that they are not confident in doing big pulls or that they don't have particular boss fights down pat. Yet they have some baseline skill and knowledge that could be encouraged or developed.

And yes, in my humble opinion if you are using DF solo or with one friend it shouldn't be a shock that you may need to take an extra 10-15 minutes to complete even if everyone is constantly casting and has a firm understanding of at least their 5-7 primary job skills. Why try to force speed runs rather than just ask if that's cool at the beginning? The former often leads to wipes, which leads to bickering, pouting, people throwing a tantrum to be kicked, people taking the drop penalty and sitting in queue again, waiting for new players to join in-progress, and votes to abandon, which make the run even longer, less pleasant, and turns new and experienced players off from the game. It isn't just your time or my time that is at stake. I totally understand being frustrated when things could be better/smoother, but if you have to have that fast clear why not run a pre-made or at least ask the DF group first if that's cool? I also get leaving when it's just too stupid, but again, that's what this thread is about? Where is that line?

It's funny, but, for all the horror stories floating around there's a large segment of players who want to learn, practice, get tokens, meet people, etc, in DF but they are caught between those with the "this better be fast and perfect" mentality and the "how dare you point out I am only using the first skill my character learned" mentality.

[bswpayton]

Can we count those who have been away or don't run certain content very often among those who NEED to speak up? I've seen some players rant in various venues that if you have jobs at 70 you must have everything down perfect and know it all.

asking can really be an inncovience sometimes it takes a bit to type out that every time you go into a dungeon. The best thing to do is play how you play and adjust accordingly, I know every dungeon for instance in the game is cappable of being big pulled. So I go in with the mentality to get the dungeon over with in 20 mins. That being said if a healer cant handle it then I will silently go back to the start and just do small pulls its really that simply I dont understand why people get all bent out of shape really. The only time I get mad is if I just don recieve a single heal at all and as someone whom plays all rolls, I know when I healer is using their skills or not.