Excluding Players from Ultimate Savage is Not the Right Move

[era1Ne]

Because its content that is for players who can kill O4S? I mean if you can't even beat that how do you think will you be able to kill something that is even harder or why should you go in? The only thing that would happen is that people demand nerfs because they don't understand that this is content for maybe 1%-5% of the playerbase.

An even bigger issue would be statics breaking up, because they blame each other for not clearing these type of content, which could lead to some people either leave the game complete, stop raiding or searching for a new static. Gordias already destroyed some statics and this was bad for the community imo. Bahamut is suppose to be harder than that as i recall and this will just be bad for the mood of everyone. Also people shouldn't forget that you would get 345 weapons there without clearing v1-4, if you are able to ofc and this would lure some people to try bahamut before clearing the easier content first. Starting an discussion in the static, if they should try to progress v3/v4 or do bahamut first.

Think of it this way OP. Savage and Ultimate are the same or similar type of content and you clear it step by step as always. You can't go into v2, if you have not cleared v1. You can't clear v3, if you have not cleared v2 and so on. Bahamut is just "v4.5", if you want and it makes sense that you go from the easiest to the hardest content one after another.

[Masekase_Hurricane]

This is not the core of the debate. Unfortunately, this topic has blown up which I did not anticipate. If I had known this, I would have put a more detailed opening post, rather than a statement. The arguments now are snippets at the start of the topic. My thoughts on the topic are as follows........

Have a nice day.

But what you said recently and what you said at the start are two totally different things. Also everything you have said in the last post happens anyway, so now i'm not even sure of what the purpose of this thread was.

[Starflake]

But what you said recently and what you said at the start are two totally different things. Also everything you have said in the last post happens anyway, so now i'm not even sure of what the purpose of this thread was.

It's because I had a discussion outside of this topic and adopted the new stance on this. Opinions change when you are presented with good reasonable things. Originally I did think it should be available to all from the start, but I don't anymore. The point of the thread was to discuss, which happend and the result for me is my latest update. Now that this has been said, it really is time for me to pull out of this. There is nothing more to be said. Thanks for all who participated and kept it clean.

[Masekase_Hurricane]

It's because I had a discussion outside of this topic and adopted the new stance on this. Opinions change when you are presented with good reasonable things. Originally I did think it should be available to all from the start, but I don't anymore. The point of the thread was to discuss, which happend and the result for me is my latest update. Now that this has been said, it really is time for me to pull out of this. There is nothing more to be said. Thanks for all who participated and kept it clean.

Ah ok fair enough. I would edit first post with new stance it will help the thread die.

[Maero]

I kind of agree SE reasoning, not just any Joe Dirt should be able to get in.
While it is a shame for those of us like myself that can never even find groups it is what it is

[Lambdafish]

I do support an initial lockout of people who have not cleared 04S. The reason for this being that the feedback SE receives on Super Savage will not be convaluted by people who have almost no raiding experience or have the odd "this content is too hard" complaint. However, I do believe the lockout should be lifted once the Ultimate Savage content in itself becomes obsolete so even players who do not have the ability or feel the necessity to clear it can also get a taste of the content.

First off I want to say thanks for being a reasonable part of the debate, using the information and changing your opinion based on discussion and new facts and viewpoints being presented, that is a brave and noble thing to not only do but publicly show off to a forum of people, any further flaming is either misinformed or ignorant to the evolution of the debate.

As for this new viewpoint, it is fine on principle, but in practice not so much. Put it this way, if an unsynced ultimate coil is easy enough for the casual crowd to clear it then O4S is even easier, and the gating will have been naturally lifted anyway without the devs needing to do a thing. Remember, T6 is still gated behind T5, T10 is still gated behind T9, and savage coil is still gated behind T9, the difference now is that the content is easy enough to breeze through the multiple instances in one sitting, and the gating is as limiting as gating Omega savage behind Omega normal. So yes, on principle your idea of accessibility is fine, in terms of developer resources, a bit of a waste of time.

[missybee]

So does this mean that for example disabled people who have a cognitive disorder should never be able to do Savage content because they will never be able to clear it anyway and they have no business being there?

Damn, that slope is pretty slippery.

[LunarEmerald]

Not quite sure but if you mean low level, Chrono Trigger certainly allows you to, if you know the hidden way to do it, you'll just get battered into paste.

That's only available in new game plus, which requires beating the game to unlock.

[Ilan]

Damn, that slope is pretty slippery.

Honestly its disgusting that people always come with arguments like that. Because it puts the Developers and Publishers in a bad light because they don't evolve their whole game for handicapped people.

I mean no offense to people who are handicapped and its cool if they want to game if they can but you can't evolve a game like ff just around them.

[missybee]

Snip.

I was being a bit curt with my initial reply, but yes, I completely agree.

It's a false equivalency - having the skill to beat O4S and therefore getting into Unending Coil has nothing to do with whether you are or are not disabled. Hell, I'm sure there are people out there with cognitive or other disabilities that are incredibly skilled.

...and that's the thing. The only barrier to entry here is skill.

If you feel that you are being excluded from Unending Coil, remedy that. Clear O4S. If your static isn't good enough, save up a bunch of money and merc a run if you need access so badly.

Frankly, I think gating this content behind O4S is a fine idea. If we are to believe the devs in terms of how difficult this fight is supposed to be, those who haven't cleared the current most difficult content are likely to flounder in content that is even harder still.