Excluding Players from Ultimate Savage is Not the Right Move

[Rakiria]

You... you do realise... That almost all content in this game is gated?
Can't beat the primal? Can't do the extreme mode. Can't do your level 50 job quest? You won't get to the 60 one either. The core principle of making a game keep challenging you is having to do stuff before being able to do harder stuff.
This is not gating people from experiencing something they can't do anyway. This is game design 101.

[AlexionSkylark]

I think this is coming from the fact that Coil of Bahamut what the single only piece of progression content this game ever had that had an engaging story and thematic, and that ran like an actual raid - a dungeon with thrashmobs and a path to follow with your raid-mates - and people miss that.

Alexander was not an engaging enough tematic. While the steampunk ambience was somewhat cool to some, most would agree that GOBLINS kind of SUCK as villains, and that the storline was MILES behind the one portrayed in Coil (having a tie-in with thwe calamity at the end of 1.0 made it better, yes, but regardless it was IN ITSELF much much better). And now we have Omega... with a very lackluster story about rogue AIs doing weird stuff and trial-like fights.

So yeah, people were really pissed when discovering that Coil, the one truly engaging and epic-feeling progression content storyline, is being re-introduced into the game but only for the top 0.1% of players.

The true issue here is the general lack of epic and engaging storylines and thematics for progression content.

Both Alexander and Omega feel like sidequests of lesser meaning, not unlike Crstal Tower of the Mhach ones. almost all the salt being spilled here wouldn't spill if SE gave us the type of progression content we crave for ever since Coil stopped being current content.

[Legewiel]

The true issue here is the general lack of epic and engaging storylines and thematics for progression content.

Wasn't a story but for me it were really epic that fight on Alexander on Floor 8, 11 and 12. Floor 8 were awesome i always repeat it when I have the chance XD

[MyaValentine]

Both Alexander and Omega feel like sidequests of lesser meaning, not unlike Crstal Tower of the Mhach ones. almost all the salt being spilled here wouldn't spill if SE gave us the type of progression content we crave for ever since Coil stopped being current content.

I actually agree that crystal tower, mhach and very posisbly the new return ivalice seem to be having a more epic and developed story than the actaul hard content I assume because of the mentality everyone put behind the fact that more people will do those as opposed to raids. which saddens me. Omega Imo had a mix, it did not start as epic and left us hanging more engaged and intrigue by the next story arc as binding coils did but Imo it started much better than alexander by miles. I just wished they would atleast make the world feel treathened by their presence a giagnt grape koolaid pool doesn't really intimitade much as the giant crystals and coils scathered around eorzea. Idk they could even make fates and stuff realted to Omega since he can create any sort of bein at any given moment and any given place it's almost perfect material for special fates.

[AlexionSkylark]

We need more Allagans, more Ascians, more tie-ins with the MSQ.

I want a progression raid that provides answers to long-lingering questions and mysteries of FFXIV lore. I want this story to be filled with love and drama starring the characters we already know and love, like the scions themselves. I want to fight bosses which tie into the MAIN lore of the world. I don't wanna fight a NEW threat that is only relevant during the cycle the raid is featured.

Coil was that. It was INTIMATELY tied into 1.0 lore. It actually was 1.0's final chapter. None of the raids that came after did anything like it.

[DaulBan]

I think the raids not having very compelling stories after coil is simply because coil is, as you say, intimately tied to 1.0. It's sort of the gold standard for story content because of that, whereas there aren't really that many lingering questions from past lore that come within even miles of why the hell Bahamut was up in that moon. Raid plot after that has just sort of been a justification for having bosses, as opposed to a real plotline. Goblins summoning the God of Time? That's all you need to know because the fights themselves are the attraction, not really the story. At least, that's the impression I get from how they sort of structured Alexander. And it's not necessarily a bad thing, it's just that people's high hopes after coil were never going to be met because there is no compelling story to tell. Anything considering Zodiark or Ascians is best left to the MSQ, where it can be a centerpiece, not a side-story which people might avoid or not play at all.

[Yeol]

Every floor is gated. You can enter V2S after beating V1S.
You can enter Ultimate after beating V4S, where is the problem?

[MyaValentine]

the ties are there, Omega was the machine created by the allagans to beat bahamut and shynriu only to find out omega actually came from a different star, not even allagans were capable of creating such a machine, he's literally on a god level and no one knows his true origings, we had him tie on the MSQ with his epic fight awaisnt shynriu and tied up the stormblood story line, he'sa real threat as he can create anything at any time and wipe humanity he can even create his own dimension. Theplot itself is there but the way they are delivering it is very bland a borring.

To me the big mistake SE is doing imo is that with the introduction of normal mode there's absolutely no reason to keep raid and msq separated, raid story will heavily benefit by a fully fleshed out story with the entire focus of the team and voice acting behind them and they can continue the arc every eve number and have odd number as arc fillers hell they can even improve raid fights ir add a fith boss idk.

[AlexionSkylark]

There are MANY compelling stories to be told. We can delve into each of the former calamities, as an example. Another thing of notice is that the Ascians are NOT a united group, each ascian follows more or less their own agenda, sometimes teaming up, but going solo most of the time. We only saw 4 Ascians until now - Lahabrea, Nabriales (deceased), Igeyorhym (deceased) and Elidibus. AFAIK there's at least a dozen more out there who could be doing a lot of cool shenanigans involving Allagan artifacts of even more powerful stuff - think Kingdom Hearts Chain of Memories-style.

Imagine this for a moment:

New raid content for 5.0, the DAWN OF EIGHT

The moogles from the Churning Mists come for the Scions for help, because Hraesvelgr has disappeared. After some investigation, you discover that he was attacked by 3 Ascians who teamed up to try and kill him for his eyes. He barely escaped with his life but what's truly surprising was that the sheer ammount of power wielded by those ascians was truly beyond comprehension. Then, the Midgarsorm wyrmling appears and say that the ascians have HIS EYES, which were stolen by the Garleans after the battle of Silversong Lake and found their way into ascian hands through Elidibus. They were being held at the Seat of Zodiark for taking part into their ultimate plan, but they were STOLEN and those 3 ascians decided to go rogue, bringing forth a new calamity by themselves, bringing forth the end of the Seventh Astral era and the dawn of the Eighth Umbral Era.

The only person capable of tracking the ascians is Elidibus, and so the Scions decide to try and contact him to ask for his help. Tis divides the ascians opinions, with one party thinking that we shouldn't risk having a chance of Elidibus recovering the eyes, while the oher party feels that hunting the ascians by themselves may mean they only find them after they find Hraesvelgr's hideout where he's recovering and kill him. Ultimately, Alphinaud decides to try and find Hraesvelgr and defending him when the ascians come.

After some investigation, you discover Hraesvelgr's hideout - he flew to the southern tip of Eorzea, to the ruins of an Allagan city. There, he closed himself into the Egg of Sabik, the very device the Allagans used to transport Bahamut (the original, living dragon) from Meracydia to Eorzea to ultimately turn him into a primal. His desperate plan was to stay there until he was recovered and strong enough to break free from there, he being of the same brood as Bahamut but much older now and more powerful. Problem is, the scions found about this too late - The ascians already located him and are on the process of breaking the egg open to kill Hraesvelgr. So the scions decide to go there and try to stop them. Arriving there, they have to invade the allagan city ruins and fight the voidsent horrors the Ascians summoned to give them enoough time to complete their task.

-- here players start the first cycle of the progression, each fight taking place into a different part of the city - an open area kind of like the first fights of the Weeping City, then the central building, a secret facility built under the building, and then the place where the egg is. The last fight would be against one of the ascians themselves, and there could be mechanics involving Hraesvelgr helping the party in some way. --

After defeating the ascian, he escapes, but he drops the Midgarsorm eye he was carrying. After some discussion, they try to destroy it, but to no avail. Clueless, they decide to bring the eye back to the Waking Sands to better figure out with Urianger a mean to destroy it. Arriving there, they find Urianger there... with Elidibus. All scions raise arms, but he says that they don't need to worry - He will not try to take the eyes back from them, as he needs the scion's help to stop the rogue ascians. People start suggesting that Urianger went traitor again, but Alphinaud steps in and says he has secretly sent Urianger to try and contact Elidibus to find out what the Ascians' ultimate plan may be. Elidibus then tells the ascians' plan to the Scions - They intend to use the combined aether of both Midgarsorm and Hraesvelgr's eyes to FULLY POWER AND ACTIVATE AZYS LLA. He reminds the scions that Azys Lla was originally the Allagan empire flagship battlecruiser, and as such it has massive destructive capabilities that far surpasses the ones of any other weapon ever built. If they manage to fully activate it, they can fly it to low orbit altitude and launch orbital strikes against the entire planet without any risk of retaliation, causing the 8th calamity and possibly wiping out EVERY LIVING BEING IN THE WHOLE WORLD, and possibly destroying the planet itself. That was never the Ascian's purpose, they never intended to wipe out the very star from the universe. Zodiark and Hydaelyn are two sides of the same coin, and as such, they both would be destroyed if the planet is ever wiped out like this. So, for now they must unite against this common enemy. And he also agrees on forfeiting Midgarsorm's eyes to the scions as compensation for their help, altough he won't tell how to destroy them.

The Midgarsorm wyrmling appears again and says that he can try to track where the eyes are by trying to see through them, but that will take some time. At the same time, Elidibus say he's gonna keep trying to track the Ascians, and will check back when he has any news. He suggests that the eye be taken somewhere safe, and after some deliberation they decide to ask for Aymeric to store it into the Vault while Urianger and Krile try to come up with a way of destroying it. Nothing to do now but wait...

[KikodeYusaku]

You don't see any issues with players being able to obtain i345 weapons without completing O4S?