Dear Tanks and DPS

[Tridus]

This debate should be turned into one mega thread, combining all roles. All Roles should be trying to achieve the best possible output.

But this debate doesn't really exist for two of the roles. Have you ever seen a tank or DPS argue that it should be okay if they spend half the fight doing nothing except waiting for something to happen?

The closest comparison is to if they should be expected to use various utility actions (Manashift and Shirk are two that come to mind, although I'm sure there's others). But "ABC" is not in any way controversial anywhere outside the healer community. It's the standard.

[shape]

The should healers do dmg topic needs to further broken into should players with endgame mindsets pass over into DF roullete content. lets face this is where the the flames for this topic started.

Should Healers dps, Yes
Does it matter if one does not during daily roulette, not really
Is it worth raging in game if they do or don't during easier content, not really , if your raging your not focused, if your not focused your also to blame.

While groups are on progression the healers dmg is often required to meet the dps check. But things should never stay like this. The dps from healers should be applied to decreased kill times, once things are on farm.
But isn't this the case for every member of the static regardless of role.

[QT_Melon]

if your raging your not focused, if your not focused your also to blame.

(you're ...as in "you are")

Huh? You know you can still focus and do multiple things? That means you can see what other party members are doing while doing your own thing.

Example I have friends that will run with me in dungeons in DPS so they may not be playing bard but the are familiar with what happens when I run with them. They do get annoyed when they get a subpar bard that doesn't multi-dot on trash packs and don't use AOE either. They can feel when things take longer to kill because they've run it enough to know their GCDs/oGCDs are back up during certain parts of the fight.

[Sebazy]

....

Your first point is of note as you're absolutely correct, it's a clash of play styles that invariably ends up with these kinds of posts. In reality, both the raid and casual 'scenes' are correct in their relevant content and the proper context, it's when they meet in the middle and the waters get muddied that things stop being a nice and easy shade of either black or white.

So leading on to your second comment, you're correct in that it doesn't matter if a healer doesn't DPS during the daily roulette. But if they have aspirations of doing progression content, it's perhaps wise to use those roulettes to build good habits and practices that they can use as a foundation for their raid play.

On your last point, I think you're oversimplifying it, again, it'd help to know what experience you have as it'd help me understand and appreciate your point of view better.

A good example of where things just aren't that simple would be A12S. The enrage check for that fight was actually pretty generous, DPS isn't an issue right? The unfortunate reality of the situation was that even with Echo and full 270 gear, most PFs and even many casual statics needed some healer DPS to get a kill. Why? It wasn't because of the enrage, but rather because they needed to kill it before the second set of fountains wiped the run as very few pugs could handle the movement and puddle placement. Zurvan was another shining example of this sort of faux DPS requirement.

Lastly, your opening point reminds me of a suggestion I made on these forums around 3.4-3.5, I'll have to try and find it as it wasn't particularly popular back then (which surprised me frankly).

[Sebazy]

Aha, found it:

Quite simply put, when SE add new dungeons, they will run through them extensively with various group setups as part of the testing and validation process. Data from these tentative runs can be taken and it'd be pretty straight forward to work out a typical DPS figure for each job right out of the gate in every new dungeon from this point forward.

SE could then take this figure, and apply it against a players initial clear.

*drumroll please*

This could then be saved in that characters data as a hidden expert roulette match making rank much akin to the MMR systems you see in games such as Overwatch.

I will stress right now that this suggestion revolves around this number being completely hidden from the player, you won't be able to see your own rank, nor will you be able to see anyone else's.

As you complete your expert roulette, your performance relative to the initial baseline will tweak your ranking up or down accordingly.

This ranking would then be used to try and skew who you get grouped with in your expert roulette. It wouldn't prevent two players with vastly different rankings from being grouped if that's all that's in the queue at that moment, but for example, in the case of a surplus of healers and DPS in the queue, it would group the highest ranks in one group (aka raiders who likely just want big pulls and a fast clear), and the lowest ranks in the other (who are more likely to want to take it easy and potentially lack the gear, confidence or experience for speed runs and big pulls).

In my eyes this is beautiful on multiple levels:

Those that simply want to speed run the dungeon as fast as they can will have a better chance of getting a group with like minded people, less frustration and salt, faster runs, good times.

Those that simply want to take it easy, plod though the dungeon and are either too timid, simply aren't bothered or just don't have a good enough grasp of the game yet will also get put with other people who are much more likely to go at a slower steadier pace and be content doing so.

This would also provide an incentive (Something this game desperately needs) for someone seeking quicker expert roulettes to actually work on their own personal standard of play, the better they do, the more likely they are to get stronger party members and thus a nice double dip on the likelihood of a quick clear.

Granted it’s nearly 3am and I’m half asleep here, but that strikes me as a three way win for all concerned?

To clarify, this idea only applies to expert roulette, it simply wouldn’t be fair to the player base overall to apply this to trials and 24man content.

In closing, the three big details to keep in mind with this idea:

The match making rank would have be hidden and completely invisible to all.

The match making rank would only be considered for expert roulette.

It would not make or break players being able to be thrown in with each other, rather it would just be an advisory to better sort and group a surplus of players (aka healers and dps) into more likeminded parties to minimise frustration and potential harassment.