Enochian

[Ferrinus]

I also support increasing hotbar space through redundant skill consolidation for every other class, but to my knowledge no other class has such an obvious and instant home run as three related job actions all of which are effectively or literally mutually exclusive with each other.

If, for instance, Inner Beast and Fell Cleave were on separate buttons, I would support them being merged into one button instead of responding "well I'm sure warriors have at least one hotbar slot free so it's fine."

[Itov]

I also support increasing hotbar space through redundant skill consolidation for every other class, but to my knowledge no other class has such an obvious and instant home run as three related job actions all of which are effectively or literally mutually exclusive with each other.

If, for instance, Inner Beast and Fell Cleave were on separate buttons, I would support them being merged into one button instead of responding "well I'm sure warriors have at least one hotbar slot free so it's fine."

Finally! Exactly what I was meaning. I totally agree with you! It's about constructive criticism.

EDIT : And minimalistic UI

[Snowelfie]

I also support increasing hotbar space through redundant skill consolidation for every other class, but to my knowledge no other class has such an obvious and instant home run as three related job actions all of which are effectively or literally mutually exclusive with each other.

They have done it on the 2 new jobs already.

SAM's Iaijutsu - automatically changed to 3 diff skills depending on how many zens you have, but listed as 4 separate skills in job action. If you try to macro "Iaijutsu" and put it on the hotbar, you will notice the macro will have skill updated too. It's already built-in.

Likewise for all of RDM's enhanced melee skills vs. the normal version.

If they have done those already, and they have also done similar things for other jobs in PvP... don't see why it cannot be moved to PvE as well, that would be a true QoL change.

[Kabooa]

If they have done those already, and they have also done similar things for other jobs in PvP... don't see why it cannot be moved to PvE as well, that would be a true QoL change.

Part of it comes down to "weight". This is a gameplay concept so it's difficult to quantify, but I will try.

Weight is the idea that any particular action in a game has impact behind it. Using Paladin as an example, there's a level where there's a significant amount of weight added with a new ability. Level 26, Rage of Halone.

This new ability is your first combo chain finisher. It is your strongest, flashiest ability thus far, and you can easily see and -feel- the impact that comes from properly using it. (The enmity bar, the damage, the flashy animation). It is deserving of its separate button it requires. Rage of Halone doesn't lose this impact to 50. It arguably maintains its position as 'most impactful weaponskill' for paladins until Royal Authority. Goring Blade is flashy, and even though it does more damage and has a suitable animation, you never truly feel the full impact. (DoTs tend to act like that, and despite the fairly strong hit, Halone still hits harder upfront and maintains the Enmity impact)

Royal Authority however hits significantly harder than Halone and arguably has the better animation. It certainly captures the name in motion, but the three weapon skills do not overlap in purpose. Halone is still your threat gauge, RA is your bomber DX, and Goring blade is your old reliable mare. None of these abilities feel obsolete to the point where their 'weight' isn't felt (And Halone arguably still maintains its weight solely due to the absurd Threat. Halone might be used sparingly, but it makes an impact when it is.)

The faster, frantic, much more reactive focus of PVP means the weight in this scenario isn't in the abilities or the mechanics, but in the conflict with the other players. It is why PVE's system balanced to PVP felt so wrong on a fundamental level, by maintaining the basic build up and rotations utilized in PVE while supplemented with PVP actions, but PVE's system was not meant for a highly mobile enemy force. Thus the bells and whistles get stripped down, and the focus of PVP becomes more about movement, target priority, and choice ability use, while basic spells and weaponskills are streamlined into 'mash buttons'. It doesn't matter if the 'weight' of these actions are removed, because the 'weight' comes from the conflict itself.

In the scripted, controlled PVE encounters, (Mostly Non-Savage), that isn't the case. Which is why the weapon skills still take separate buttons, why certain abilities aren't two-for-one (Leylines, Between the Lines). The 'separate key' for each ability adds to its weight, and as silly as it might sound, that's not a bad thing. However, there are some examples where this should really be cleaned up.

Speaking as a Black Mage, Enochian, Fire, and Blizzard don't require this, but any 'upgrade' that might occur moving forward will. (Fire IV elevating to Firaga or something like that). BTL / Leylines could use it, but otherwise the Black Mage's kit is suitably divided that very few things will require it.

[Snowelfie]

snip.

It seemed to me that you took it to the wrong direction.

You tried to explain your "weight" example with skills that can be used/swapped almost freely. We are talking about spells/skills that are standalone and when one is available for use, the rest are not.

The "PvP" example was only taken because some of those built-in macro was already done there, it had nothing to do with the PvP gameplay at all.

You had mentioned it yourself: BTL / Leylines could use it. It's the same concept with Enchioan/FireIV/BlizzardIV, SAM's Iaijutsus, and more. Think about it.

Trust me.. the "weight" of Higabana and Midare is always there the moment you cast it, you don't need to throw them to two separate hotkeys to feel their weight for PvE content.

[Cabalabob]

A lot of pvp feels better than pve right now, I think it's intentional since they seem to be trying to push more people to do it lately.

On topic, I agree that more skills should be consolidated, leylines and between the lines is another example.