SE, can you fix RDM's aggro?

[Arrius]

You've had shitty RDMs that don't know how to use Diversion then. The sad reality is that many DPS players find validation in being able to rip the enemy off their tank, as they think it somehow validates their ability to do their job well. Just another consequence of not having a parser or any kind.

Diversion is a wasted Job action on a RDM, they should use Lucid Dreaming to dump their aggro and get mana back, which is by far more useful.
But if the tank can't hold the trash/boss even after that, they are either bad or too stuck up in being in dps stance.

[LaylaTsarra]

Diversion is a wasted Job action on a RDM, they should use Lucid Dreaming to dump their aggro and get mana back, which is by far more useful.
But if the tank can't hold the trash/boss even after that, they are either bad or too stuck up in being in dps stance.

I had one the other day pull the boss in DPS stance in Kugane Castle and i ended up having to run before he finally managed to get aggro back. This obsession with stance dancing gets to be a bit much when they can't hold aggro and then want to blame the dps for not performing correctly.

[jameseoakes]

I had one the other day pull the boss in DPS stance in Kugane Castle and i ended up having to run before he finally managed to get aggro back. This obsession with stance dancing gets to be a bit much when they can't hold aggro and then want to blame the dps for not performing correctly.

Did you use diversion?

[Marianno]

Not taking sides but there has been an increase of tanks pulling bosses/trash mobs in DPS stance especially in Deltascape normal (bosses). It is correct to say that DPS should be using DPS ENMITY SKILLS (USE THEM EVEN IF YOU HATE THEM *LOOKING AT YOU MELEE/BLM/RDM ^_^). However, too many times it is the case of tanks simply wanting to sit in DPS stance and forget that securing aggro should be their primary concern. I have died more times as a healer (using only healing abilities) and DPS using LD/diversion because of this. Not saying tanks are only to blame, but as a tank (and an infrequent tank player), one must never forget that you are the parties meat shield. Go into DPS stance when you have a far lead on aggro. Again, DPS should be using the DPS ENMITY SKILLS (USE THEM EVEN IF YOU HATE THEM). Saves everyone a headache.

[technole]

Dungeon aggro lost on SAM/RDM tends to usually be because they are single targeting in a pretty large "you should AoE" here situation. In raids not using Diversion/Lucid when appropriate tends to lead themselves getting killed if they put up respectable DPS.

It used to be pretty annoying in earlier dungeons with no stances, before they buffed tank aggro

[Nyxn607]

I play DRK is every expert roulette ... I never lose aggro to a RDM ... ever. Check your latency/opener combo?

Just for reference. I use Unmend, leap. After that depends on the size of the group, I will either use abyssal drain x3 for larger groups (mainly to help with healing), then use 1 normal aoe (forget the name off the top of my head). After this combo, I never have to use another aggro combo until the mobs die (except for bosses).

[Zfz]

...pull the boss in DPS stance...This obsession with stance dancing...

It's not an obsession with stance dancing. Stance dancing means a tank knows when to be in what stance, meaning the tank will always open an encounter in tank stance. A tank that opens with DPS stance while the encounter clearly requires a tank, has an obsession with dps not with stance dancing. In other words, the player fails as a tank.

Although lately there's a trend on the forums here and elsewhere that the party needs to "work together" (see the thread about regen) so the mobs are handed on a plate to the tank and the tank can just waltz in and do whatever he likes. "Working together" means everyone put in the utmost effort, which includes the tank. But I guess those tanks today are too pampered to do even the most basic of tanking duties.

If a tank starts in tanking stance, tries to establish proper enmity lead before going into DPS stance, then we can talk about "working together".

That said, when I'm on my RDM I never open the moment the tank pulls. As much as tanks have a DPS obessions, there's also this "opener" obsession among DPS jobs. Unless it's Savage/Trial content, there's no point disrupting a pull with powerful openers, especially on a RDM.

[JunseiKei]

I can't have Diversion every pull guys...

Sure some of the time, but it's impossible for me to have it every pull. And when I do one scatter and the tank can't get hate off of me from the ONE scatter, I don't think Diversion would have made a difference anyways.

AoE pulls shouldn't be an issue, unless you're sitting at 90/90 on a fresh pull and triple enchanted moulinet. 120s is more than enough for bosses, though and RDMs that correctly AoE DPS as well as staggers lucid dream (also 120s seconds). Scatter shouldn't generate more enmity than anything a tank does unless they are simply not AoE pulling. Then it's on them, probably. Me going full ham, I've always ripped hate and I don't like dying much; 25% main stat reduction has made me want to be safer, even if it promotes someone else being able to play poorly. Even when tanks stance dance and I find myself on a very thin line of a flashing orange enmity meter has made me keep diversion on cooldown as well as lucid. I'd rather not die for something I know I can ultimately control.

We're also probably, at large, not even accounting for gear disparity. For an overwhelming amount of dungeon runs I've done, very few tanks have had raid gear. Most tanks have had gear that is either current to that time (right now, that would be creator), nothing upgraded or from savage, or have gear that is from previous dungeons. Suddenly makes sense why someone like me wouldn't risk removal of diversion for roulette-only tanks. At the same token, it'd make sense that players that actually main tanks probably have no issue holding hate against RDMs.

Personally, I slot diversion, lucid dreaming, swiftcast and addle permanently, while floating my last slot according to the primal or raid; apoca for 1s-3s and surecast for 4s. For progress 3s, I actually kept erase for removing the fire tick and preventing deaths. Until people stopped getting hit by spellblade.

[Legewiel]

Diversion is a wasted Job action on a RDM, they should use Lucid Dreaming to dump their aggro and get mana back, which is by far more useful.
But if the tank can't hold the trash/boss even after that, they are either bad or too stuck up in being in dps stance.

If you're doing normal dungeons i wouldn't say it's a wasted job action, It'll prevent you a lot of headache. Even if the tank is bad, if you can adjust and have a smooth run that is awesome.

[JunseiKei]

Diversion is a wasted Job action on a RDM, they should use Lucid Dreaming to dump their aggro and get mana back, which is by far more useful.
But if the tank can't hold the trash/boss even after that, they are either bad or too stuck up in being in dps stance.

Nothing a tank can do will net them nearly as much enmity as a bursting RDM; maybe if the enmity is being diverted by a NIN using smokescreen, but that's still not anything the tank can do on its own. For dungeon runs, not much else is such a 'make-or-break' difference in role skill choice. Raiding, yes, but not normal dungeons. Might as well pick up diversion and avoid needless destruction to team play.