SE, can you fix RDM's aggro?

[Zfz]

...pull the boss in DPS stance...This obsession with stance dancing...

It's not an obsession with stance dancing. Stance dancing means a tank knows when to be in what stance, meaning the tank will always open an encounter in tank stance. A tank that opens with DPS stance while the encounter clearly requires a tank, has an obsession with dps not with stance dancing. In other words, the player fails as a tank.

Although lately there's a trend on the forums here and elsewhere that the party needs to "work together" (see the thread about regen) so the mobs are handed on a plate to the tank and the tank can just waltz in and do whatever he likes. "Working together" means everyone put in the utmost effort, which includes the tank. But I guess those tanks today are too pampered to do even the most basic of tanking duties.

If a tank starts in tanking stance, tries to establish proper enmity lead before going into DPS stance, then we can talk about "working together".

That said, when I'm on my RDM I never open the moment the tank pulls. As much as tanks have a DPS obessions, there's also this "opener" obsession among DPS jobs. Unless it's Savage/Trial content, there's no point disrupting a pull with powerful openers, especially on a RDM.

[JunseiKei]

I can't have Diversion every pull guys...

Sure some of the time, but it's impossible for me to have it every pull. And when I do one scatter and the tank can't get hate off of me from the ONE scatter, I don't think Diversion would have made a difference anyways.

AoE pulls shouldn't be an issue, unless you're sitting at 90/90 on a fresh pull and triple enchanted moulinet. 120s is more than enough for bosses, though and RDMs that correctly AoE DPS as well as staggers lucid dream (also 120s seconds). Scatter shouldn't generate more enmity than anything a tank does unless they are simply not AoE pulling. Then it's on them, probably. Me going full ham, I've always ripped hate and I don't like dying much; 25% main stat reduction has made me want to be safer, even if it promotes someone else being able to play poorly. Even when tanks stance dance and I find myself on a very thin line of a flashing orange enmity meter has made me keep diversion on cooldown as well as lucid. I'd rather not die for something I know I can ultimately control.

We're also probably, at large, not even accounting for gear disparity. For an overwhelming amount of dungeon runs I've done, very few tanks have had raid gear. Most tanks have had gear that is either current to that time (right now, that would be creator), nothing upgraded or from savage, or have gear that is from previous dungeons. Suddenly makes sense why someone like me wouldn't risk removal of diversion for roulette-only tanks. At the same token, it'd make sense that players that actually main tanks probably have no issue holding hate against RDMs.

Personally, I slot diversion, lucid dreaming, swiftcast and addle permanently, while floating my last slot according to the primal or raid; apoca for 1s-3s and surecast for 4s. For progress 3s, I actually kept erase for removing the fire tick and preventing deaths. Until people stopped getting hit by spellblade.

[Kuzonoha]

I mostly run expert dungeons as a -currently- i310 Dark Knight, so this post will detail my experience with it.

Trash pulls and boss alike, it's rare for a Red Mage to pull aggro off me. I have no shame in using multiple Abyssal Drains to keep trash on me.

Boss fights, leading in Tank Stance and firing off Unmend + Plunge (if available) then enmnity rotation, a well geared Red Mage can grab hate for about 2 seconds before I get a spinning slash off (2nd skill in enmity rotation) but that's nothing a quick Voke can't fix, because spinning slash is next in my rotation. Once I get that spinning slash off, I'm good for the rest of the fight.

All in all, it's never been an issue for me.

[ArisIllusoire]

diversion is pretty much mandatory for rdm, especially for one with a proper opener. use it.

[Rongway]

If a RDM is pulling things off a tank in an AoE situation, the tank is not AoEing enough. Scatter is 130 potency per target and Enchanted Moulinet is 260 per target. Each tank's basic AoE is (adjusting for attack power differences) about 700-900 potency per target, before bonus enmity from tank stance is even taken into account.

[Cenerae]

I've never really had problems holding hate off RDM on my PLD. You just need to press Flash an extra time or two if they're bursting super hard on AoE (and if they're not, then doing the standard spamming of Total Eclipse should keep hate from them anyway), or just be ready to press Provoke if they're doing it on bosses, then slap it with an emnity combo and carry on.

[Marianno]

Not taking sides but there has been an increase of tanks pulling bosses/trash mobs in DPS stance especially in Deltascape normal (bosses). It is correct to say that DPS should be using DPS ENMITY SKILLS (USE THEM EVEN IF YOU HATE THEM *LOOKING AT YOU MELEE/BLM/RDM ^_^). However, too many times it is the case of tanks simply wanting to sit in DPS stance and forget that securing aggro should be their primary concern. I have died more times as a healer (using only healing abilities) and DPS using LD/diversion because of this. Not saying tanks are only to blame, but as a tank (and an infrequent tank player), one must never forget that you are the parties meat shield. Go into DPS stance when you have a far lead on aggro. Again, DPS should be using the DPS ENMITY SKILLS (USE THEM EVEN IF YOU HATE THEM). Saves everyone a headache.

[Balfuset790]

As a RDM main I can safely say that it is entirely possible to run any content in the game without pulling aggro from your tank as long as you're smart about when you pop things like Diversion and Lucid Dreaming. If you're going for the hardcast VerAero/Thunder opener then throwing out Diversion during the countdown (at about 7 seconds) means that you give the tank plenty of time to establish enmity on the boss and then continue into your rotation.

At that point I only ever need to pop Lucid at about 50% MP to keep my enmity down whilst also providing sufficient MP to Mana Shift to healers as and when necessary.

[Dualgunner]

I do not have any problem with bursts or ripping aggro at all as a DPS - Because I can read the situation about and around the tank and react accordingly instead of going full yolo. Diversion itself is an okay job role, especially for physical DPS, yet for Red Mage it's something I avoid getting, as LD works for me just as good.

I like having Diversion and Lucid Dreaming, even in raiding situations. In V3S, for instance, when I pop diversion in my precast, I can unload hard and fast at the word "go"; diversion will be up again in time for White Flame, which is another instance where hitting it hard and fast is a boon for the whole group. Killing it before mindjack means a good chunk of extra dps time on Hali before that goes off. Diversion is unfortunately not up for the dragon so I have to wait a bit before bursting there, but it's up again by Apanda where a strong burst is also nice to have.

My only real contention is where you call it a "wasted slot" because I've found a good deal of use for it.

[Mirakumi]

I had to mention this to my SO...He got to rdm to 70 and was telling me how he kept pulling aggro from all these "bad" tanks. So I asked him, are you using Diversion? And hes like whats that?

/forehead slap.

At least he was using lucid dreaming but diversion is very important.
He now doesn't pull agro on bosses.
Like he shouldn't have been doing ages ago. lol