Kick Abuse

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Yes I don't like healers who don't dps (as I mained healer in heavensward) but I don't yell at them. I sigh to myself and get on. Cause in life you can't dictate everyone to bow to your whim. If you don't like the party you receive in random duty they you can leave and bite the penalty.

I mean on the last mob I lbed which is a aoe if i want to be sassy but eh What I think Is needed is a defiant word from the dev on where the line is. Cause it seems the Gms don't seem to be consistent either.

Neither do I. In fact, I generally deal with them the same way you did. Although, I do find it odd you seem to have no qualms DPSing on healers yet won't DPS on Red Mage? That... is rather hypocritical.

[RitsukoSonoda]

The real problem is "difference in playstyle" carries too broad of a scope. If difference in playstyle is accepted as legitimate grounds for a vote kick then it would be fine to kick players for the following
-The job they are using because it doesn't fit in your desired "meta"
-Opening a treasure chest because you didn't want the item inside
-Not participating in their ERP during the duty

The list of absurd reasons is limitless under this one term. I feel it should only count when it crosses the line into harassment.

[Kogekigami]

The real problem is "difference in playstyle" carries too broad of a scope. If difference in playstyle is accepted as legitimate grounds for a vote kick then it would be fine to kick players for the following
-The job they are using because it doesn't fit in your desired "meta"
-Opening a treasure chest because you didn't want the item inside
-Not participating in their ERP during the duty

The list of absurd reasons is limitless under this one term. I feel it should only count when it crosses the line into harassment.

Pretty much. It would be nice if they can come foreward and say fine this is the written down in stone rule and where it ends. Cause yes in theory with a loose term of 'difference of playstyle' A bard could kick a samurai cause its not a drg so they won't get the piercing resistance.

[Elamys]

If you weren't AOEing a large trash pack, then you were being inefficient. RDM AOE is more potent than single target melee + Verholy/Verflare nuke when dealing with large packs. Enchanted Moulinet is a DPS gain at 3+ mobs, as is Scatter spam (however boring it may be). If you were failing to AOE to the other two's standards, then yes, they can kick you for that. GMs have stated multiple times that "differences of playstyle" is a valid reason for a vote dismiss. I personally think they should add that as a vote dismiss option, since it doesn't particularly fit under any of the four currently available (AFK, Offline, Harassment, Cheating), but it is a valid reason for a kick.

While it may be allowed now, I really, really hope they don't allow something like that (not DPSing in the exact way someone wants, IE, not holding the group back in any appreciable way) to become a validated reason to kick. In my opinion that just breeds elitism. People really shouldn't go into DF with randoms and expect top tier playing. At the end of the day, it was just shitty of them to kick someone for that reason. It really sucks for DPS because after being kicked for such a stupid reason they're probably looking at a 30+ minute queue to get back in.

Neither do I. In fact, I generally deal with them the same way you did. Although, I do find it odd you seem to have no qualms DPSing on healers yet won't DPS on Red Mage? That... is rather hypocritical.

Oh, come on. They didn't say they weren't DPSing at all. They weren't AoEing, that's really different. Depending on how many mobs were there we don't know HOW much of a difference it would have made to AoE.

[Casualty]

People really shouldn't go into DF with randoms and expect top tier playing.

Agreed. However, knowing how to use (especially in RDM's case) a fairly easy AOE rotation is hardly "top tier playing". It's pretty fundamental. I might put up with as long as it wasn't too much of a hindrance, but I can see why someone else would not.

It also sounds like this player caught the other players' attention after they harped on the tank for holding single target aggro while EVERYONE else was doing aoe. So not only were they wrong, they wanted everyone everyone else to change what they were doing because they couldn't or wouldn't use aoe. That's pretty silly and probably more of the real reason why the kick happened.

In a run you can be salty, and you can be bad, but you are much more likely to get kicked if you are both.

[Mavrias]

People really shouldn't go into DF with randoms and expect top tier playing.

I think you're mistaking the fundamentals with "top tier playing."

[Elamys]

I think you're mistaking the fundamentals with "top tier playing."

I'm not. What I'm saying is that people who resort to kicking immediately people who don't play as well as they would like are often the people who kick those who are doing just fine and not holding the group back, but aren't playing at a high level. It's an absolutely cancerous way of behaving.

Does a person not AoEing on a trash pull make things take a bit longer? Sure. But HOW MUCH longer? How many mobs were there? Regardless of what people think, AoEing on a pack of 3 mobs does not make it take much less time than single targeting them down (and for some classes and comps, it's actually faster to single target at that point than to AoE).

You're playing with completely unknown strangers, surely you want them to remember you as a valuable and competent player. And not some mouth breather that made them roll their eyes.

If you spend that much time thinking about the opinions of people in DF, then chances are you need to step back a little bit. Trust me, other than a few exceptionally standout situations, people aren't going to remember every person that they played with that they didn't think played well. That's like 85% of the people that play this game anyways.

[Whiterock]

Bad play stands out, and bad players are experts at just turning a blind eye and keep the group going like the mindless automatons they are. It might be your sub, but you're dragging down 3 other people that pay just as much as you do. The slow car hogging the left lane on the highway is just as annoying as the person that plays badly in an already very easy and accessible mmo, that even went to great lengths to further lowering the skill floor in SB.

[Elamys]

Bad play stands out, and bad players are experts at just turning a blind eye and keep the group going like the mindless automatons they are. It might be your sub, but you're dragging down 3 other people that pay just as much as you do. The slow car hogging the left lane on the highway is just as annoying as the person that plays badly in an already very easy and accessible mmo, that even went to great lengths to further lowering the skill floor in SB.

You know this is a video game right?

[Mavrias]

I'm not. What I'm saying is that people who resort to kicking immediately people who don't play as well as they would like are often the people who kick those who are doing just fine and not holding the group back, but aren't playing at a high level. It's an absolutely cancerous way of behaving.

Does a person not AoEing on a trash pull make things take a bit longer? Sure. But HOW MUCH longer? How many mobs were there? Regardless of what people think, AoEing on a pack of 3 mobs does not make it take much less time than single targeting them down (and for some classes and comps, it's actually faster to single target at that point than to AoE).

OP themselves even stated that this was an expert dungeon and the tank had pulled "30 mobs." If you're not aoeing that pack regardless of what job you are, then you are holding the group back likely to the point of wiping the group. Tank and Healer cooldowns are not infinite, your "3 mob" analogy does not apply.

Kicking someone for not knowing their job at level cap is not cancerous. No one is asking for O4S dps in an expert roulette, we're asking for basic effort and fundamental knowledge.