Is Fordola the monster Lyse says she is?

[Daralii]

Because while we kill in battle, I'm not sure we ever execute the captured.

It's also hard canon that the WoL regrets just about every death at their hands, despite predominantly killing for defensive reasons. I'm not sure where the idea that the WoL is some kind of coldhearted butcher got so much traction when the DRK quests completely contradict it.

[Cilia]

Because while we kill in battle, I'm not sure we ever execute the captured.

The Eorzean Alliance is not known to execute POWs. Garlean propaganda says that we do, which was why the townspeople of Ala Ghiri were so unwilling to give up Baut. However we did not execute Baut (he is in fact pardoned for good conduct), did not execute the Garlean soldier we helped in the wake of the incident at Specula Imperatoris (he is, to our knowledge, still alive - albeit in jail), did not execute Fordola, and did not execute the POWs we took after capturing Ala Mhigo (they are shown being marched through the streets with Fordola in one of 4.0's closing scenes). Hell, even Zenos might still be alive, had he not committed suicide.

It's also hard canon that the WoL regrets just about every death at their hands, despite predominantly killing for defensive reasons. I'm not sure where the idea that the WoL is some kind of coldhearted butcher got so much traction when the DRK quests completely contradict it.

Killing is sinful, and we knowingly and willingly do so. Repeatedly and on a pretty grand scale. This makes it very, very easy to paint the Warrior of Light as a remorseless killer by ignoring the fact we fight and kill primarily to restore peace and/or freedom, or to preserve the well-being of others.

... but if one must kill the guilty to save the innocent... which is the greater sin?

[YianKutku]

Hell, even Zenos might still be alive, had he not committed suicide.

Doubtful.

(/10char)

[Daralii]

Doubtful.

(/10char)

I can pretty easily see them pulling a Batman-type deal, where the WoL refuses to kill Zenos because they know that becoming an executioner could easily set them down the same path Zenos walked. It would also mirror Lyse's refusal to outright execute Fordola after her defeat. The Alliance would be pissed, but what are they gonna do about it?

[Cilia]

Doubtful.

I know. The point I'm getting at is that everyone says killing is wrong, but had absolutely no problem with killing Zenos because of the threat he posed. If you're going to criticize taking the lives of others, then all lives hold equal value - just because Zenos was a monster in human skin doesn't mean it was OK to go at him with the intent to kill, by that standard.

I acknowledge that killing Zenos was necessary. So, too, was killing those who guarded him with their lives. Doesn't mean it was fun or acceptable - not even Zenos. We did it because it was necessary. Practice compassion and mercy... but know when they must end.

I can pretty easily see them pulling a Batman-type deal, where the WoL refuses to kill Zenos because they know that becoming an executioner could easily set them down the same path Zenos walked. It would also mirror Lyse's refusal to outright execute Fordola after her defeat. The Alliance would be pissed, but what are they gonna do about it?

To, uhh... not kill Zenos after slaughtering our way through the Garlean ranks garrisoned at Ala Mhigo would be... extremely hypocritical. The poetic point stands, but given the threat he posed not killing Zenos would be really stupid. Lucia outright tells us that with him it's kill or be killed. (I still would have at least tried to keep him alive as a political bargaining chip.)

[Theodric]

I mean, the entire point of Zenos - by Yoshi-P's own admission - is that he was created with the intention of making a character who players would not sympathise with.

Zenos deserved to be killed without hesitation. He revealed that he cared nothing for Garlemald, he only wanted a 'good fight'. Which means that he toyed with his enemies and his own allies alike for no reason other than to sate his boredom. Countless lives were lost because of his actions. He was also very likely to have been a bad apple all along and him not 'having friends' could easily be a result of people being too terrified of him to get close enough to him rather than because of his upbringing. His father, for instance, is described in the lore book as having grown up playing with Regula in the Royal Palace which resulted in a strong friendship that spanned decades. So it's not as if being a Garlean Pureblood of high standing negates the opportunity to befriend others.

Then, of course, there's the matter of experimentation. His father sent Aulus - the man responsible for Resonant experiments - away. It was Zenos who approached Aulus and willingly empowered himself, no doubt in a similar manner to how he willingly merged with Shinryu. His father's commentary in regards to Zenos being a 'monster' is right on the ball.

[Raqrie_Tohka]

I mean, the entire point of Zenos - by Yoshi-P's own admission - is that he was created with the intention of making a character who players would not sympathise with.

And that is why I dislike SB compared to HW. Anyone who would knowingly tries to create a character with absolutely no chance of redemption or empathize with, would find that it is actually quite impossible to do so. There are yet those who would empathize with Zenos, hell, they even gave us the option themselves in the dialogue to acknowledge him. The simple fact that the Garlean emperor, a cold man, has no pity and empathy for his own son perhaps shows us that it's not right to write ppl off like that, and there is even the argument that writing them off so easily can be part of the reason they turn into monsters. If there is any character redemption arc for Fordola and Yotsuyu at all, then the same mercy should be granted to Zenos. In fact, the only reason that I might be persuaded to hold SB in a good light compared to HW by now is if even Zenos himself is redeemed. Then I will trust in miracles, "Final" "Fantasy", and this expansion again.

So yes, a Zenos redemption arc would truly make this expansion amazing again. And if the developers are truly as great as they are they'd realize the potential in pulling of something like that as well.

[Jandor]

Because while we kill in battle, I'm not sure we ever execute the captured.

Well, we execute those tempered by primals, & we know shes had some Garlean experimental echo thing done. Best to play it safe IMO.

Nah, I'm not that bothered by her capture, I just don't really have high expectations for what they'll do with her character. I'm expecting some rather cliched redemption arc, maybe, I'm probably being needlessly pessimistic.

[Delily]

Anyone who would knowingly tries to create a character with absolutely no chance of redemption or empathize with, would find that it is actually quite impossible to do so.

Have you ever met a genuine sociopath? Someone who actually has anti-social disorder? These people are downright TERRIFYING. If you don't believe me, YouTube has various interviews will well known mass murderers describing their actions. They are chilling. It's very hard to portray that in a video game.

There are yet those who would empathize with Zenos, hell, they even gave us the option themselves in the dialogue to acknowledge him.

As the Warrior of Light, our place is to constantly be fighting and to be separate from our peers. In us, he sees a kindred individual.

The simple fact that the Garlean emperor, a cold man, has no pity and empathy for his own son perhaps shows us that it's not right to write ppl off like that, and there is even the argument that writing them off so easily can be part of the reason they turn into monsters.

Unless Zenos was like that from the start.

[Alleo]

I am not wanting to start a big discussion about Zenos but I also found it a bit funny how they wanted to create someone that is unlikeable and yet we have more than enough people who liked him and who even wanted to join his side. (Nothing wrong with that imo) So either they changed their stance on him or they have not managed to portray him as bad as they hoped.

The WoL might like to fight but imo they are still far away from being like him. They might have become more like him if they never had comrades but still he feels more of a "what if" WoL then someone we could truly relate too.

And like Lyse said nobody is born that way. There are many discussion in real life too, if some people are simple born that way and yes there are hints that sociopath do have certain brain scans but those are just one point. A lot of other factors are important on top of that to make someone a sociopath. I know that this is not real life but I do believe that the lore creators put Lyses sentence there to hint that he was not born that way.