The Healer Problem in PVP

[Takatsuki]

Ya and what do you want them to do? Nerf healers so healers cant carry anymore?

[Mantrus]

I want them to acknowledge that this is a problem and that they are trying to fix it. There is a fix to it somewhere but I'm not a game designer and this is an issue with many interrelated and complex variables. I'm not going to pretend I know the answer. But it is possible because DPS had high win rates on the previous seasons, though that system wasn't perfect either.

[-IronWolf-]

I want them to acknowledge that this is a problem and that they are trying to fix it. There is a fix to it somewhere but I'm not a game designer and this is an issue with many interrelated and complex variables. I'm not going to pretend I know the answer. But it is possible because DPS had high win rates on the previous seasons, though that system wasn't perfect either.

I don't think there's a way to fix this without reworking the whole damn pvp again, which would mean giving more skills and self sustain to the other classes, giving more CC options and etc. which would mean making pvp the way it used to be. They will never admit this problem and they won't fix it for at least another 2 years until the new expansion arrives. What you will see is a patch here and there trying to make things even for other classes but the problem is so deep rooted that not much can be done by just patching.

[LalaRu]

I don't think there's a way to fix this without reworking the whole damn pvp again, which would mean giving more skills...

Some other pvp had only 8 buttons to press and were not trivial at all. Maybe maps have to be reworked a little, at least put more walls for break line of sight tactics, too much maps giving the ranged the upper hand, but this is another topic.

[-IronWolf-]

Some other pvp had only 8 buttons to press and were not trivial at all. Maybe maps have to be reworked a little, at least put more walls for break line of sight tactics, too much maps giving the ranged the upper hand, but this is another topic.

I don't think maps are the problem at all here, it is a matter of unbalance between classes. The problem isn't even the fact that they oversimplified things, it is the fact that they didn't make enough research and testing to realize that the entire mode depends on healers and nothing more.

[Keelyah]

Ya and what do you want them to do? Nerf healers so healers cant carry anymore?

I think what is so amusing is that dps, which is almost always the most dominant role, is feeling the weight of actually being dependent on some one other than their self and that is bothersome ...as well as the other paragraphs of concerns expressed. But what is crazy to me is the amount of amazing healers that are out there and that are BY far the better healer( especially the PC ones who may be quicker than some of us ps4 users at that) have stories about no matter how much they healed their team , dps was either spread out, fighting behind a wall or lower level or focused on the wrong target and stillll managed to lose...(HELLO HELLO HELLO NICE JOB NICE JOB *puts red sign on healer*) Not because They were 1k short from Healing 900k damage away from their team compared to the healer on the other team who only managed to heal 200k ...but because dps can have the tendency to do things (insert silly things some dps do here) that make things real taxing on that healer and sadly the better healer doesn't always win the match.

What probably should happen is we wait for the promised replacement and addition skills to these classes and leave Healers out of these types of discussions...Cause then what happens after you nerf the heals/potency ...? more stress on the healers up keeping these dps still going to try and carry by themselves ... and now we have less heals for everyone. The only maybe random monkey wrench I can throw in to start another riot is keep the healing potency the same but let all the healers have a negative boon that make self heals on their self like 10 - 20 percent less!

[Cidel]

I think what is so amusing is that dps, which is almost always the most dominant role, is feeling the weight of actually being dependent on some one other than their self and that is bothersome ...

I agree. See, I recall the past season(s?) where what kept getting thrown around was "go play melee dps if you want to carry." Now that this stereotype has shifted to healers (who in my opinion always had the most stressful responsibilities), its suddenly a bigger issue and gets thrown around like some sort of joke or something. And while yes, healers do have a lot of power in the flow of the match- if the other 3 teammates can neither focus/burst targets correctly nor stay in reasonable range/sights of their healer, then that healer can't do anything more than prolong the inevitable.

Also, I'm a little tickled that players asked for more incentives to play healers in PvP and now that the incentive is "carry potential" in some ways, people are lashing-out about it. I don't even know anymore.

[Zojha]

And while yes, healers do have a lot of power in the flow of the match- if the other 3 teammates can neither focus/burst targets correctly nor stay in reasonable range/sights of their healer, then that healer can't do anything more than prolong the inevitable.

Technically, even if a healer would regen everyone on the field for five billion HP every millisecond, they'd still be unable to create wins by that, only stalemates, as the other healer would do the same. It's in their design to not win, but prevent loss, that's what a healer does by design. Their power is stopping power, not advancing power - only damage advances the match, healing reverses damage and thus match progress. That fact bears little relevance to the actual amount of power however. I just gave you an example of an unquestionably OP healer that still would be unable to do more than prolong the match.

The amount of power a healer has is balanced against the damaging power of the entire enemy team, making them roughly 3 times as powerful as any other role and half the power of the entire team. That's why "focus and burst" and separating from the healer are a thing in the first place - trying anything else is futile, as healers are too powerful. It's not like in League of Legends where poke and disengage, hard engage/deathball, burst, protect the Kog and split comps all have avenues to be viable, it's either burst or bust in this game, because anything but concentrated burst is gonna be erased via healing with ease - Hence why vulnerability debuffs were introduced to counteract that.

Put short, what you are describing as limitation of healing power is the power of the enemy healer. Try again against a team without a healer and you suddenly realize just how powerful healers actually are. A 4vs4 match in which one side has a healer and the other none with the current balance is equal to a 6vs4 in a world where everyone was equally powerful. It takes a lot of skill discrepancy between the teams to surmount such odds.
And truly, the very fact DPS and tanks need to coordinate to overcome a healer where the healer has little such need the other way around further speaks of a considerable imbalance.

Finally, now that you know that you as healer are essentially half the team all on your own, have a rough guess why your job is so much more stressful than that of the others. Every failure of yours weighs three times as heavily as that of another role. And on top of that, everyone and their mother is going out of their way to counter you and you in particular, because you are the MVP. It's just another symptom of healer power. And it's not innate to healing - there were times where certain champs in LoL got similar babysitting treatment - it's innate to power.


It simply doesn't matter how you spin the story - Healers are OP. Stating anything else is just denial. And arguing that the other 3 people in the match might be unable to overcome the enemy healer isn't helping the point in the slightest. At this point, the only argument in the line of bad arguments missing is that the healer role as such has a perfect 50% winrate over all ranked matches and therefore is balanced.

[Krolja]

At this point, the only argument in the line of bad arguments missing is that the healer role as such has a perfect 50% winrate over all ranked matches and therefore is balanced.

Let's hope no one tries to pass that type of idea off. The #1 player on the Primal DC is a healer with an almost 80% win rate. Holy moly.

[Takatsuki]

There is no solution in a pvp system with 11 abilitys that completely lack depth, this was doomed from the beginning, even if they nerf healers then healers just become obsolete and everybody will cry about that.