The Healer Problem in PVP

[Exiled_Tonberry]

Square Enix : AS YOU WISH.

Aspected Regen : 2000 MP

Muse effectiveness on AST reduced.

Man I should apply to the dev team. Thats some square level balance right there.

Fix a problem, cause another problem.
Or my favorite, nerf one job, buff the other, which simply shifts the problem around.

It's like they have Sophia on the balancing team or something.

[Cynric]

Fix a problem, cause another problem.
Or my favorite, nerf one job, buff the other, which simply shifts the problem around.

It's like they have Sophia on the balancing team or something.

Lol I know right? It's a shame because most of the things we've been saying for weeks didn't even get changed. Even the simple things. Yet they put the tagline saying it was based on our feedback.

I honestly feel a little cheated that I have to wait like 4 more hours for these changes.

[Geovir]

Maybe some randomly spawned dps boosters or healing kits will serve? It definitely make matches more random

[Mantrus]

snip.

I do think healers add depth to the game. They require burst damage, coordination, and CC management at the very least. But it\\'s just that right now healers are too effective that it makes damage dealt feel pointless.

[Khalithar]

Snip.

This is an issue with pvp in every mmo, healers are either too strong or pointless and how to balance it is always an issue. One thought is to apply a global healing debuff to every match, 20%-50%.

Another is to make culling time happen more often and add a healing debuff to it, 50% at one stack, 100% at two preferably. Playing matches where no one dies outside of culling time is the absolute epitome of boring.

The issue is the same as every other mmo, until SE learns that healing should delay death and NOT prevent it (there is a difference between those two concepts) it\\'s going to be an issue.

Also I\\'m going to state a very unpopular opinion here, but killing a healer should be possible even in the absence of CC, coordinated burst, and running them out of mp. Healers are not entitled to immortality just because they aren\\'t CC\\'d and have mp.

[Trunks]

Two birds, one stone: give melee Jobs abilities that apply temporary, massive healing debuffs on the target. You can even give it variety, with tanks getting outgoing healing reductions and DPS getting incoming healing reductions.

Blanket nerfs/debuffs are futile; the day after that goes live, half the people in this thread will be making "omg where r all da healurz?!" threads because suddenly there will be nobody to save them from their suicidal over-extension. And then the cycle repeats. Making it a temporary, player-applied debuff means it's a team's failure to coordinate that makes healers unkillable.

It's not rocket science. This is what happens in literally every MMO, even ones that purport not to have healers.

edit: and to clarify, there should be targeted nerfs to SCH and WHM, e.g., putting Lustrate on GCD.

Also I\\'m going to state a very unpopular opinion here, but killing a healer should be possible even in the absence of CC, coordinated burst, and running them out of mp. Healers are not entitled to immortality just because they aren\\'t CC\\'d and have mp.

This is such a facile argument, and one I've seen so, so many times. DPS should not be entitled to killing other players just because they are pushing buttons. Push the correct ones or, guess what -- you'll get poor results. The Jobs are so dumbed down for PvP, it's really not asking much.

[Khalithar]

Snip.

You're right they shouldn't be entitled, but my point still stands though, straight up just killing someone should be a thing.

Now do I believe a dps should be able to solo a healer? Yes, but with a caveat and hear me out on this. When I say I believe that "healing should delay death and not prevent it" I mean that a lone dps doing their rotation properly should be able kill a healer *eventually* even without using any cc, coordinated burst, or running them out of mp.

"But Khalith you charismatic stallion! Then there would be no point to healing in pvp!" Wrong. The point of healing is still present, if two dps are wailing on each other, the dps with the healer will outlast the one without. If a dps is on a healer in my concept, that healer would die eventually, but if they have a dps on that person attacking the healer, the person attacking the healer would die before said healer.

[Khalithar]

Can't edit on mobile.

Let me add that I absolutely support adding a healing debuff that is able to be applied by dps as long as its massive (75%) with no diminishing returns whatsoever on the duration.

Also, you are wrong about other mmo's. In history throughout WoW and swtor there were healers that were legitimately overpowered and required an entire team to take them down. But if there was another healer on the team cross healing them? It was impossible, the CC durations were not long enough to keep them locked down.

[Sunako]

Can't edit on mobile.

Let me add that I absolutely support adding a healing debuff that is able to be applied by dps as long as its massive (75%) with no diminishing returns whatsoever on the duration.

Also, you are wrong about other mmo's. In history throughout WoW and swtor there were healers that were legitimately overpowered and required an entire team to take them down. But if there was another healer on the team cross healing them? It was impossible, the CC durations were not long enough to keep them locked down.

Healing reduction was 75% before. During 2.0 summoner could do 50% with miasma and marauder/warr was another 50% that make it impossible heal. I can show you how balanced it was back in day. Average match take under 2min.

I have old picture from it. I played over 2k matches in 2.0 that game mode died like after month.

[Khalithar]

Snip

I'm not sure of the context of the screenshot or why you're posting it. Is it just to prove you PVP'd a lot back then? Alright I believe you, now what's your point? That because healers were too weak the mode died? There's really no evidence of that. It could be other factors, maybe most people that liked FFXIV weren't in to PVP as much? Maybe they found that mode boring? Maybe the rewards weren't compelling enough to get people to stick around after they got what they wanted?

Also, let me ask you this, you say with a 75% debuff healers were too weak, giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming that is the case, how about healers where there was no debuff present? Additionally, even if healers were still killable without the debuff back then, it is a different game now. How the game was back then is largely irrelevant as the design has evolved over time.