Please scale the difficulty of Royal Menagerie

[Zhamkyong]

this is totally untrue , and I love how this thread is going all these people like oh dont nerf it are probably the main ones who will leave after two wipes if someone is slow to learn the fight. And I have stated clearly this isnt a fight that needs to be nerfed but for a normal fight this is hard to alot of people whom dont do harder content in the game. And its not like the people here gona sit there and do 50 mins of wiping until some of those same people get a grasp on the fight.

As someone who usually sits until everyone leaves, this offends me.

Bad jokes aside about offending (it doesnt, in case you are still wondering) i am one of those guys who enter and helps with Ex trials with clears and such if i have the time, so your theory must be a bit wrong. And yes, Ifrit EX is more punishing than Shinryu. And i can think of a couple of more fights who are more difficult and are in the game since ARR.

[LineageRazor]

The system we have is called Vote Kick. If someone is frequently dying and causes a wipe, then we remove them from the group (difference in playstyle is a legitimate reason. Even if someone is new, if they are outright refusing to learn mechanics they have died to frequently, it is perfectly fine to kick them. You do not have to carry newbies who choose not to learn). One limitation that should be applied to TRM is having the level 70 Job Quest cleared.

The idea that there are tons of folks deliberately looking for a carry is a pretty tiresome myth. While exceptions may exist, virtually no one goes into an instance with the deliberate intention of just sitting back and enjoying the ride. People WANT to be useful. They WANT to contribute. The problem is that not all of them CAN.

When a newbie fails the same mechanic six times in a row, they aren't "refusing to learn". They just suck at that particular mechanic. They don't recognize how to anticipate it, or their reflexes are poor. Perhaps they're having trouble learning the mechanic, but that's a whole different world from refusing to learn it.

The ideas of folks deliberately seeking carries, or intentionally refusing to learn are fictions created by better players in order to allow themselves to feel justified in getting rid of the folks holding them back - to alleviate the guilt of kicking them by making it seem as though the folks being kicked DESERVE to be kicked.

Having said all this, I'm not suggesting that players who are having a difficult time learning the fight should not be kicked. On purpose or not, they ARE holding back the rest of the group, and the good of the many outweighs the good of the one. I just want folks to recognize what they're doing for what it really is: they are kicking someone not for being a bad person, but for being a bad player.

[bswpayton]

As someone

well your def the exception as opposed to the rule I havent done this fight in a while myself no need to and Im glad the trail roullete stopped forcing me into it , but the thing is as it stands now this fight is harder than some current synced primals like Ive already stated. Nobody is talkin about at mim ilvl as it stands now Shinryu is a harder fight than the current guarda ex, bismark ex, and ifrit ex at the least. I honestly would say its harder than v1s had more fail groups in shinryu than I did when I was learning v1s and also laksimi ex as well. And the argument that oh people have seen these mechanics before where was that in a game where everyone is asked to run old content unsync where is someone fresh gona see these mechanics so yea maybe people who got to actually play content, but anybody just now joining hasnt seen any of these mechanics for real.

[ArcaviusGreyashe]

I honestly would say its harder than v1s had more fail groups in shinryu

RM is hard because it hits hard, yeah... but not hard enough to be impossible to do for the first rushers at ilvl 290... Yeah, it was hard, at that time, but we succeeded with all first timers in five tries. Granted, we were rushers, so kinda midcore/hardcore players, we can't expect everyone to know how to adapt and react as quickly, sure. But as long as there's one raid leader that explains the mechanics at the beginning of the fight, and helps people throughout the fight by telling them to stop moving when he casts his icy thing, or go in the puddles when he casts his fiery thing, it all goes well, and believe me, I helped many people through it in the first two weeks of stormblood.

LineageRazor is right, most people try to help, and, if they're properly lead, they will help. Of course, you can't just take a sprout there and ask him to do the fight perfectly... But I've made this fight dozen of times, helping friends, or just queueing for it to help people out, and I've never had a timer run out in this trial. Some parties may have disbanded, but there were less than one in five.

White knighting is fine, but please, if we'd be a better community, we'd have no need to nerf any fight.

[hydralus]

I don't even know if there still is any issue with the fight. I like to do it because it tends to give second chance points and out of the ~40 or so runs I've done, only 2 of them were so outrageously bad with people not learning that it was vote-abandoned. The rest either went smoothly, or were cleared despite some issues. Even if I'd gotten lucky and the real rate of failure is, say, 20%? Is that too much?

[missybee]

And its not like the people here gona sit there and do 50 mins of wiping until some of those same people get a grasp on the fight.

Who still takes 50 minutes to beat RM?

Anecdotal, of course, but my RM group had about five people (including myself) who were going in totally blind. We wiped once, and then we cleared it.

So, no...I wouldn't wait 50 minutes, because that would mean several people are doing things VERY incorrectly.

I honestly would say its harder than v1s

Alte Roite is a piece of piss, but that fight is still very easy to flub up if people are dingdongs with positioning. Not to mention, you have to have at least one healer on their game lest Charybdis + Lightning destroy the tanks and then the run itself.

So I would still argue very strongly against your statement.

[bswpayton]

Who still takes 50 minutes to beat RM?

Regardless we are talkin a savage raid in comparison to a msq that everyone does while savage is something that very few people even do are attempt. A normal mood story fight on the level of content thats suppose to be harder than other stuff in the game. Like I said I havent gotten in there for a while but when I was doing it because the trial roullete force fed me into it I recall one time where Three times back to back it put me in there resulting in three vote abandons.

[Avatre]

Personally, I think that RM is scaled properly. Especially if you've actually been doing the MSQ, and all the dungeons/trials that are associated with it. EVERYTHING leads up to knowing all the mechanics that are involved, even if some of the indicators of the attack(Tidal Wave for one) isn't seen often(if at all).

[missybee]

Snip

I understand what you are saying, but I still contend that RM is fine at its current difficulty, and isn't really comparable to either Extremes or Savage.

Hell, I've personally had more success when I get RM in Trial Roulette than when I get Susano (as in, I have won RM all of the times I've gotten it, and lost Susano all of the times I have gotten it...which is really sad).

[eaudaemon]

this is totally untrue , and I love how this thread is going all these people like oh dont nerf it are probably the main ones who will leave after two wipes if someone is slow to learn the fight. And I have stated clearly this isnt a fight that needs to be nerfed but for a normal fight this is hard to alot of people whom dont do harder content in the game. And its not like the people here gona sit there and do 50 mins of wiping until some of those same people get a grasp on the fight.

Your assuming a lot of things with no proof to back it up. I always stay to the bitter end on any groups I joined, may it be pug or other wise and majority of those groups people actually stayed until it was unreasonable, Meaning 10 mins or less, I never done EX during Heavensward, tried and failed a few on ARR, and just getting the knack of it on SB, but I still finished Royal Menagerie with a pug from Duty roulette, oh and I also qued for more than 12 times to finish it, so all these statements from your post is malarkey as far as I'm concerned