granting ability to pvp at level 30 was a mistake..

[Xdark93]

i understand full well there were good intentions to enlist more players to pvp by opening it at level 30 and even giving exp as an incentive to play it but this is getting pretty sad and ridiculous that, that's the only reason people want to pvp..

before 4.0 pvp was a sport that we earned as endgame content something we could enjoy with friendly competition and some nice rewards for our labours.. but now its a "i dont care if i win anymore as long as i get my tomes and exp" sort of attitude which has ruined literally most of the pvp communities' overall fun and experience of pvp.

and since the level 30 people have been queing up they probably don't even know how to PvP in ffxiv i've been in countless matches where myself or others have tried to calmly explain things and teach these newer players how to PvP only for it to fall on deaf ears.. leading to more frustration and making us wanna quit playing PvP all together.

this post isn't to discourage new players from trying tho but what its for is to explain the problem and hopefully maybe come to a consensus on what needs to be done.
so this is my suggestion on how to fix PvP:
1. put the required level back to 50 so that way new players will have time to learn their job and be able to understand it better. level 30 is still too fresh and easy paced for newer players PvP is chaos and requires skill from the player to adapt to high end content with fast paced combat.
2. if we are going to have exp involved as a reward/compensation make a new mode for it pls SE call it "PvP Levelling" or something to that effect so that way for those who just want exp and tomes can do so in that mode and the veterans can enjoy healthy and enjoyable competition in normal pvp.
3.establish an auto-dismissal for all players inside a match that kicks them if they idle for more than 3mins

i have hopes that the development team is reading our posts and discussing ideas such my own listed above^ and hope they sincerely consider our opinions on the discussion to provide a better PvP experience for us all.

[Pence]

1. put the required level back to 50 so that way new players will have time to learn their job and be able to understand it better. level 30 is still too fresh and easy paced for newer players PvP is chaos and requires skill from the player to adapt to high end content with fast paced combat.

How does playing PVE to 50 teach people how to PVP? A lot of the abilities you don't even have access too at 50, not to mention how wildly different the skills can be.

[ElHeggunte]

You say all that like this is a new occurrence with Stormblood. Even back in ARR and HW, you'd get saddled with shit-tier, do-nothing seal farmers that didn't actually care about winning (or at the very least, seemed more interested in farming each other in the middle of nowhere instead of doing objectives). The only real difference between now and then is I'm only having to wait 5 minutes for a match even during off hours instead of 30+ minutes in the middle of prime time. If you had to choose between the occasional shit group with a 5 minute queue and the occasional shit group with a 30 minute queue, it's pretty obvious what most people would pick. Aside from reimplementing the auto-kick timer, your suggestions won't do anything besides balloon our queue times again while having zero impact on the quality of the teams.

[alimdia]

before 4.0 pvp was a sport that we earned as endgame content something we could enjoy with friendly competition and some nice rewards for our labours

When did the devs ever state that PvP was a "reward" for PvE players? PvP is just a game mode.

Also it's not level 30s that are throwing matches for exp, they have potd for that, but pvp happens to be better past 60.

[loreleidiangelo]

FWIW, there's already an auto-kick for afking. The problem is just that bots are programmed to circumvent it.

I will say that while the mode is wholly unenjoyable to me now post-skill prune it does seem to have been well-received by the community, so for the most part I've just given up on it personally. Bots and win traders have been all over Feast since its inception and hardly anything is done about it because that requires actual manpower dedicated to it (which SE does not seem to want to commit).

[Xdark93]

You say all that like this is a new occurrence with Stormblood. Even back in ARR and HW, you'd get saddled with shit-tier, do-nothing seal farmers that didn't actually care about winning (or at the very least, seemed more interested in farming each other in the middle of nowhere instead of doing objectives). The only real difference between now and then is I'm only having to wait 5 minutes for a match even during off hours instead of 30+ minutes in the middle of prime time. If you had to choose between the occasional shit group with a 5 minute queue and the occasional shit group with a 30 minute queue, it's pretty obvious what most people would pick. Aside from reimplementing the auto-kick timer, your suggestions won't do anything besides balloon our queue times again while having zero impact on the quality of the teams.

i see you didn't notice my suggestions, i'm requesting they create a leveling mode of pvp for players who want exp or tomes thus separating the the more casual players from those who want the competition and to gain a steady win to loss ratio. furthermore i would ask that the achievement rewards be solely awarded to those who play normal pvp vs the proposed "leveling pvp" the reward structure for normal should be:ranks,achievements,seals, and tomes. and leveling: seals, tomes, and exp. having achievement rewards fro normal pvp will encourage players to try harder and take things more seriously, instead of this "1 and done" attitude we are used to seeing regularly. que times won't be an issue here if you want to pvp for sport you que for normal pvp
which like i said achievement rewards will motivate people to wanna actually try and if they don't wanna try they'll be booted by the auto-dismissal as punishment. but if you don't care for competition and just want your seal,exp, and tomes then queing for leveling pvp will genuinely be faster cause that seems to be what most are aiming for, and thus will terrible groups migrate there the majority of the time cause they don't want to improve at pvp just want their loot and be done.

[Xdark93]

How does playing PVE to 50 teach people how to PVP? A lot of the abilities you don't even have access too at 50, not to mention how wildly different the skills can be.

before 4.0 PvP was a form of endgame content which was acquired at level 50, it was meant to be something we could look forward to doing everyday for various rewards gained from victory. the cross-hotbars were the same as your PvE hotbars so you were already familiar with the controls and knew what every action and skill would do if applied correctly. its not the same now however pvp has been simplified for newer players who obtained level 30, but in my personal opinion that level is just too low for them to grasp the concept of PvP almost anyone can gain level 30 in a week thanks to things like palace of the dead and mainstory quest in such a short amount of time all they've learned is that pressing buttons/keys will help them win a fight against a mob or boss no thinking is involved just mindless tapping is all they know they aren't in the mindset of rotations will help them dish out more damage/enemity/healing etc. and there are no consequences either for them. pvp is brutal lol it makes you think about what you're doing and is punishing when you die alot xD PvE is good practice to improve your combat capabilities as well as get experience on how to play a job and play it well at level 50 you should have a better understanding of this anybody can pick up pvp now but only skilled and practiced players will win that's what PvE is for practice

[Endeleon]

I my experience it's never newbies who are dragging the team down but know it alls with full 70s who think they are doing whats right by running off alone to try to kill the entirety of Maelstrom by themselves.

[Paladinleeds]

snip

If we're following this idea, I would have it as such:
Competitive PvP: Wolf Marks, Achievements
Levelling PvP: Seals, Tomes, EXP

As such, I would also make it with CPvP that if your contribution isn't extremely high (let's say the max contribution you can get is 15'000, you'd need 14'750 contribution), or if your team doesn't win, you gain zero Wolf Marks from it, and zero count towards achievements. This way, you have to be darn near perfect to win it. I believe this would spur in the competitive spirit in which you want PvP to become. It would become cutthroat competitive. Levelling PvP, can have rewards more evenly distributed (but perhaps not perfectly evenly distributed to encourage people to still play).

EDIT: With CPvP, I would also make it that dying will reset your contribution to 0. That wouldn't mean the team would lose said contribution however, just it would become classified as contribution by no team member. Similarly, things like overhealing, being interrupted while claiming ice, etc, would also cause some of your contribution (say maybe 80% of it), to become classified as contribution by no team member. This would make it further cutthroat.

[Daralii]

If we're following this idea, I would have it as such:
Competitive PvP: Wolf Marks, Achievements
Levelling PvP: Seals, Tomes, EXP

As such, I would also make it with CPvP that if your contribution isn't extremely high (let's say the max contribution you can get is 15'000, you'd need 14'750 contribution), or if your team doesn't win, you gain zero Wolf Marks from it, and zero count towards achievements. This way, you have to be darn near perfect to win it. I believe this would spur in the competitive spirit in which you want PvP to become. It would become cutthroat competitive. Levelling PvP, can have rewards more evenly distributed (but perhaps not perfectly evenly distributed to encourage people to still play).

EDIT: With CPvP, I would also make it that dying will reset your contribution to 0. That wouldn't mean the team would lose said contribution however, just it would become classified as contribution by no team member. Similarly, things like overhealing, being interrupted while claiming ice, etc, would also cause some of your contribution (say maybe 80% of it), to become classified as contribution by no team member. This would make it further cutthroat.

CPvP would be completely desolate because there'd be nothing to gain but a glamour set every patch or two. You'd be back to the 30+ minute queues during HW.