Why no Plex system?

[Snow_Princess]

This is smarmy. Unnecessary and smug sounding. That's what I was referring to.


I'm not sure what confusing language I'm using. I am NOT against PLEX, I am against ILLEGAL RMT's. However I also understand that RMT happens whether or not we want it toand PLEX would funnel the money to a better place AND likely eliminate gil seller spam and bots (somewhat).
I understand what you're saying, but you're out and out ignoring what I'm expressing: People are already able to buy , with gil, the top tier equipment according to you. This means that with enough effort, anyone can farm Gil and kit out their characters at their own pace. hence it's NOT timegated. TIMEGATED items like tomestone gear CANNOT be affected by RMT , either illegal OR dev run.

Neither of us knows , for sure , what this would do to the economy because neither of us can fortell the future. But I can say for sure it would reduce illegal RMT and put money in SE's pocket instead since people are definitely WILLING to exchange money for Gil (or the gil sellers wouldn't be doing it) and eliminating the risk of banning would make people much more likely to use the legal channel.

It would also put a hard value on Gil, which may end up HELPING the economy if people can finally have a reference other than "oh hey.. people are selling this for 2 million right now". IF we had plex they could go "well, 15 dollars buys me 10 million gil, is that minion worth 15 dollars?"

You are wrong, I did not ignore that point:

surely you realize it been illegal and the prices is a deterrent?

Also it is not hard to look what the value would be. a month sub is 9-15 dollars depending what account you have and sign up for (or is it 8.99 for legacy + 6 months?) There is a lot of things on the mog station that cost more then this that people buy in the range of 2-5 M ( I actually do not remember but it was in this range and not a lot) granted it is likely due to the fact it is still discouraged, so the demand gets unknown, devaluing the real cost.

For "ILLEGAL RMT's" why are you against it? do you even know why it is a violation and the logic behind it?

That is all you care about? OF COURSE that will happen! but it will reck havoc on the game's enon, something that is not well off as is. I tried to explain what will happen when you suddenly let people buy gil freely (basically) The only unknown here is to what extent would people holding gil buy? Because there is a very limited number of them , but they hold tons of gil. This does largely depend on people knowing how to value things. Meaning at first release if they are sold for 2-5 M each, someone is gonna stockpile them, till people realize it is set too low, sell them for a higher amount, then the people with stockpiles releases theirs.

In the end of the day there is not enough things to buy to warrant it. All it would do is make the housing situation worse, trying to bride people in seeing houses for 400-1000 dollar sub times. You NEED to fix the games encon before you put this system in. Do you even realize how much gil is being horded?

And WoW's economy, like XIV's, is one where currency is worthless to plenty of players because they have nothing to spend it on.

Wrong, there is a housing shortage where a system like this would wreak havoc on. As far as I know this situation does not exist in any other MNO. People buy ... well i know back in the day I rejected an offer for to sell a large, wanting more then 100 M in an unfavorable location. I do not know the amount, but I did file a report for them asking too much. But I would venture a guess some houses sell for 200-400 M on other websites. What you think will happen when you throw in legal RMT in the mix of a really bad shortage like that? There are people that have an insane amount of gil stockpiles, and what do you think will happen if you put that in circulation?

FFXI is proof what happens when you release flood gates, ever hear of the story of a a gil sale one christmas? It would be much worse here because of the housing shortage. You know.. something that is so unstable people buy them at 100-400 M at times? without RMT involvement.

[alimdia]

As long as it's done with limits (put a monthly cap on how much someone can spend selling sub tokens) I don't see the problem.

As said in the first or second page, the RMT market is there, money is being moved around and there's nothing anyone can do to stop it, better move that money to the devs rather than goldselling sites, the choice of no RMT doesn't exist, you have to choose between money to SE and keep gold generation controlled, or money to the companies generating a ton of gold out of thin air and relentlessly spamming us.

[Krotoan]

You are wrong, I did not ignore that point:

nothing you said here says anything about how purchasing gear for gil is not a timegated thing and therefore timegated progression is not affected by direct money-gil conversion. I'm not implying people are buying gil with real money and buying gear, I'm saying that people who put in time to farm gil at their own pace are already to unrestricted buy better gear on their own schedule. I might be sounding repetitive but I cannot think of another way to express this.

For "ILLEGAL RMT's" why are you against it? do you even know why it is a violation and the logic behind it?

again: Illegal RMT funds bots, spammers and creates incentive for flooding of our economy from those bots who don't have to sleep or rest. All of those affect me negatively and therefore I am against it.
SE likely is against it because it uses their resources to create money for someone else, which is a bad position for any company and loses them subscribers who don't want to deal with said bots/spammers and distantly since we have games of chance in within the mechanic of this game there could be problems with actual legal gambling regulations if gil can be converted back to money (which Dev driven RMT cannot be).

In the end of the day there is not enough things to buy to warrant it. All it would do is make the housing situation worse, trying to bride people in seeing houses for 400-1000 dollar sub times. You NEED to fix the games encon before you put this system in. Do you even realize how much gil is being horded?

Just because you do not value your gil, doesn't mean others also don't. I will agree the ILLEGAL HOUSE FLIPPING market will get ridiculous. But those can be reported or , more hopefully, SE has a plan to make housing more available.
I have no doubt people have up to their max characters on the servers, each with both retainers stuffed to the gills with... Gil. That's on them. Once the gil gets redistributed to people who will actually spend it? it may be chaotic for a while but it will be balanced eventually.. or SE will be FORCED to deal with it. I have no problem with either situation.

Wrong, there is a housing shortage where a system like this would wreak havoc on. As far as I know this situation does not exist in any other MNO. People buy ... well i know back in the day I rejected an offer for to sell a large, wanting more then 100 M in an unfavorable location. I do not know the amount, but I did file a report for them asking too much. But I would venture a guess some houses sell for 200-400 M on other websites. What you think will happen when you throw in legal RMT in the mix of a really bad shortage like that? There are people that have an insane amount of gil stockpiles, and what do you think will happen if you put that in circulation?

FFXI is proof what happens when you release flood gates, ever hear of the story of a a gil sale one christmas? It would be much worse here because of the housing shortage. You know.. something that is so unstable people buy them at 100-400 M at times? without RMT involvement.

People can toss around their Gil how they like, I'll still be able to hunt/venture for my mats and sell them at the new "ridiculous" prices and get my piece of the crazyness. A house coming off of a demo timer won't be any more expensive (which is the current SE condoned method of acquiring a house) and anyone trying to flip them for even more money is subject to GM action (or once again.. maybe SE will actually do something if it becomes an epidemic, or MORE of an epidemic for those of you who will scream it already is).

[Belhi]

Houseflipping can only be penalised if it can be proven in game. If people resort to using 3rd party websites and forums SE is powerless to really do anything about it.

They are adding the new Kugane housing zones. Most of that housing will be sold within 20 minutes of the servers coming up. Don't expect much more than that before 5.0 in 2 years. Its taken them almost 4 years to give us a new housing district.

[RainesS]

Let's make it simple, veterans or rich no life basement dweller wants to play free without sub with this plex system. Sounds legit to me. But I think gil in this game is worthless, considering housing is limited, gear and materia is not worth it cause it's getting replaced every two patches or so. Not an equal trade I think. Moreover, I can manage even with only 300k for repair and teleporting like crazy.

[Snow_Princess]

nothing you said here says anything about how purchasing gear for gil is not a timegated thing and therefore timegated progression is not affected bydirect money-gil conversion. I'm not implying people are buying gil with real money and buying gear, I'm saying that people who put in time to farm gil at their own pace are already to unrestricted buy better gear on their own schedule. I might be sounding repetitive but I cannot think of another way to express this.


again: Illegal RMT funds bots, spammers and creates incentive for flooding of our economy from those bots who don't have to sleep or rest. All of those affect me negatively and therefore I am against it.
SE likely is against it because it uses their resources to create money for someone else, which is a bad position for any company and loses them subscribers who don't want to deal with said bots/spammers and distantly since we have games of chance in within the mechanic of this game there could be problems with actual legal gambling regulations if gil can be converted back to money (which Dev driven RMT cannot be).






Just because you do not value your gil, doesn't mean others also don't. I will agree the ILLEGAL HOUSE FLIPPING market will get ridiculous. But those can be reported or , more hopefully, SE has a plan to make housing more available.
I have no doubt people have up to their max characters on the servers, each with both retainers stuffed to the gills with... Gil. That's on them. Once the gil gets redistributed to people who will actually spend it? it may be chaotic for a while but it will be balanced eventually.. or SE will be FORCED to deal with it. I have no problem with either situation.




People can toss around their Gil how they like, I'll still be able to hunt/venture for my mats and sell them at the new "ridiculous" prices and get my piece of the crazyness. A house coming off of a demo timer won't be any more expensive (which is the current SE condoned method of acquiring a house) and anyone trying to flip them for even more money is subject to GM action (or once again.. maybe SE will actually do something if it becomes an epidemic, or MORE of an epidemic for those of you who will scream it already is).

Point... missed.. completely...
You think.. RMT are the only ones that bot? I highly doubt it given how I watch max level bots, bot it up for a year in HW. Ye they did help devalue the materials but the bigger factor in that is the fact crafted gear is in low demand so the mats stay on the MB for too long, then people undercut spam each other. People also semi-bot, it makes them look like they are a real player but still going on auto, half paying attention to it. Maybe that is why they are never caught? cuz of semi auto and never deal with RMT? idk

The main reason RMT are against the ToS is because of property ownership, has nothing to do with what you said. When you sign the ToS you agree SE owns everything, this means you can't be selling their property for your financial gain. The RMT have very little impact in this game, people really want this because they think it fights RMT and it is worth fighting for? please, the econ is not healthy enough for RMT to impact it a whole lot, and there is a few reasons for this.

1. RMT gil costs too much
2. Gil for the most part is worthless
So RMT are shooting their sales because how this game works, and it is basically the reverse of FFXI back when the cap was 75. When RMT had that sale it was obvious they impacted the econ, here you would not see that at all outside housing.

With the tokens however, it becomes a different story, and it would move high amounts of gil for a lot cheaper then the RMT sell for. It ruins their business, I am not in disagreement that it will impact RMT. However the econ is so badly built it would case more problems then solve. Why are you debating with me when we have completely different points?

You > I like to have Plex to fight for RMT
Me> it is a bad idea because FFXIV's econ is bad. I am not even looking at the effect of it has on RMT because that is not effecting the playerbase. Having a plex system NOW with the econ the way it is NOW! would be a 1000 times worse then what the RMT do to it, because people do not buy lots of RMT gil because it costs too much, esp if you compare that to what people sell wedding bands and such for.

I know it would cause problems because my main thing is to craft and I deal and look at trends every day to try make the most money. I do it because I just want to see how much gil I can make cuz I find it fun, I do not care if it is pointless. That is why I hate spending it unless I need to.

[Galgarion]

I do not understand how ppl can be for a plex system and against RMT. It makes no sense at all.

It makes perfect sense. I support plex because it gives players more varied options for deciding how they want to maintain their subscription. Plex systems can be a blessing for people running low on funds who would like to continue playing but have to choose between entertainment and food. (Poor people like this game too.) At the same time I oppose RMT because many of them are criminal endeavors seeking to violate intellectual property rights for their own profit; many of them are also literal slave labor, forcing inmates in far eastern prison camps to labor against their will. They're unethical and evil. Does that explain things for you?

[Aylis]

Let's make it simple, veterans or rich no life basement dweller wants to play free without sub with this plex system. Sounds legit to me. But I think gil in this game is worthless, considering housing is limited, gear and materia is not worth it cause it's getting replaced every two patches or so. Not an equal trade I think. Moreover, I can manage even with only 300k for repair and teleporting like crazy.

Yeah. a PLEX system /could/ work and could be a great way to drain the excess gil from the inflated economy, but with the games main gil sink housing being limited and everything else existing in the short term. I don't see it helping unless SE comes up with more gil sinks or something that exists in the long term.

The other issue is balance, something...SE doesn't have the best track record with and this is what would worry me the most about a PLEX system in this game. There's a fine line between using a PLEX sale just because you want something fun now or just want a little extra money, to a PLEX system that makes you feel like you have no choice but to use it just to get by in basic game upkeep.

[Krotoan]

Point... missed.. completely...
You think.. RMT are the only ones that bot?

Never said that. People use bots to play, we know, but the really annoying ones are the ones populating maps with names like "Vxxxvghhr Whxxblg" who are teleporting from node to node harvesting resources endlessly and dumping them at the NPC or yelling the same thing over and over in the middle of town. These are the gilfarmer bots. I couldn't care less about high level players using bots, they are few and far between enough that it's of little consequence to the rest of the playerbase, though if i PVP'd I might feel different.

The RMT have very little impact in this game, people really want this because they think it fights RMT and it is worth fighting for?

I've stated how they affect the game and it's NOT only the economy they hurt.


"1. RMT gil costs too much"
it's something like 10 mil for 5 dollars on my server. Someone who has money to throw at a game rather than time wouldn't even blink at this price. it's a value meal at Mcdonalds.

"2. Gil for the most part is worthless"
If it was as worthless as you say, nobody would be selling it for real money. There is a profitable enough market for it as is proven by the continued presence of the illegal RMT bots and criers.

With the tokens however, it becomes a different story, and it would move high amounts of gil for a lot cheaper then the RMT sell for. It ruins their business, I am not in disagreement that it will impact RMT. However the econ is so badly built it would case more problems then solve. Why are you debating with me when we have completely different points?

I'm not sure what your point is other than you like to repeat things about the economy being bad because you don't think gil is worth anything and repeating points from other threads I've seen you post in.

My point in TL;DR form: PLEX isn't a bad idea because RMT is present in this game already and giving the money to the devs instead of the farmers is good.

You > I like to have Plex to fight for RMT

Wrong. I guess I didn't state it plainly enough. I dont want to fight FOR RMT. It's there already. Redirecting it to a cause for our possible benefit is better than letting it thrive and funding gil farmers.

Me> it is a bad idea because FFXIV's econ is bad. I am not even looking at the effect of it has on RMT because that is not effecting the playerbase. Having a plex system NOW with the econ the way it is NOW! would be a 1000 times worse then what the RMT do to it, because people do not buy lots of RMT gil because it costs too much, esp if you compare that to what people sell wedding bands and such for.

I know it would cause problems because my main thing is to craft and I deal and look at trends every day to try make the most money. I do it because I just want to see how much gil I can make cuz I find it fun, I do not care if it is pointless. That is why I hate spending it unless I need to.

I got this part, several times. In your opinion FFXIV's economy is poor.

Let me ask you then, don't you think a large scale crisis in the economy, lamented by almost ALL players would spur the devs to do something about it even faster than 3 months of posts in the forums? Do you think that if your "destroyed economy" happened they would just shrug and give up the game to the chaos?

[RainesS]

Yeah. a PLEX system /could/ work and could be a great way to drain the excess gil from the inflated economy, but with the games main gil sink housing being limited and everything else existing in the short term. I don't see it helping unless SE comes up with more gil sinks or something that exists in the long term.

Yes, it could work for people with tons of gils lying around, not for newcomers in ffxiv with little gil to spare, mind you. This will cause a disparity between new and veteran players.
And yes, SE is BAD at balancing things, so that's why it's bad to have PLEX cos econ reasons.
How bout earning extra money for paying ffxiv sub instead of whining in forums for PLEX system or mandatory mogstation items. /flex