Why no Plex system?

[Krotoan]

Watching people defeat their own stance is so much fun <3
Lets use the current game for example, For some jobs penta meld 320 is better then the 340, so how is this not "circumventing the time gating"? Basically this means, what we went though for 4.06, the content delta normal would be outdated content before you could even collect a body from it, for people buying a token to gear in full 320 and jumping in savage with their penta melded gear.

Also seeing it does out perform some 340s for some jobs, where does that put creation gear as well? lul Or even worse, plex to buy the WT gear, those would get inflated up the rear if they released this.

Because by your own "gil is worthless" stance.. people in game can ALREADY buy themselves to that. There is nothing someone who is buying the gil can do that someone else who is just hoarding the gil can't do just as quickly.

Not timegated.

I'm not here to argue whether timegating is a good idea or not. I'm stating why it's there.

[Snow_Princess]

Because by your own "gil is worthless" stance.. people in game can ALREADY buy themselves to that. There is nothing someone who is buying the gil can do that someone else who is just hoarding the gil can't do just as quickly.
Not timegated.

I'm not here to argue whether timegating is a good idea or not. I'm stating why it's there.

surely you realize it been illegal and the prices is a deterrent? I do not know what you are ultimately trying to show with this post though. I know the reasoning why the time gating is there, I was not asking why it was there. I was explaining why it makes no sense and why it would make even less sense with the plex system, along with making the econ issue worse.

I am going to end this post with this idea. I do not know if you want to favor the plex system or not despite what I said, for those that do, well I will enjoy you giving people like me more power over the econ + free sub, but it will not be good for about 80% of the player base (anyone that doesn't keep buying /selling tokens and people dedicated to earning gil.

To everyone insisting this won't work, let's put this in perspective...

MMO developers who make billions of dollars developing and running MMOs came to the conclusion that the only way to truly defeat RMT is to offer their own system of RMT.

RMTers spam us in game and try to hack into our accounts. RMTers are the primary reason we even HAVE two factor authentication.

I promise: MMOs like WoW and EVE also have players who hoard loads of currency in-game, and not surprisingly, the plex systems didn't ruin those games, just like it won't ruin FFXIV.

It never ceases to amaze me that people can somehow believe they know better than multi-billion dollar companies when it comes to solutions that are already working in games right now...

Again, companies that make billions developing MMOs are already using the system you insist is going to destroy FFXIV.

Let that sink in for a while...

Those econs prob have an econ system that works, so plex isn't a big deal, here though it would make a bad econ worse, much worse. Do any of those MNO has a huge shortage in housing? from what people say here it is only a problem with FFXIV, and plex make it worse.

[RichardButte]

Those econs prob have an econ system that works

WoW's economy is a gigantic joke, with gold hoarding that was so bad that the latest expansion added a 2,000,000 gold vanity mount just to try to get some of it out of the economy.

Despite this, their plex tokens have consistently sold for ~50,000 gold.

Your fears are unwarranted.

[Vaer]

Despite this, their plex tokens have consistently sold for ~50,000 gold.

Actually they are 160k now on NA. (Multiple reasons, one of the main reasons is it can be turned into battle.net balance now).

When they launched they were worth 10-20k.

[Snow_Princess]

WoW's economy is a gigantic joke, with gold hoarding that was so bad that the latest expansion added a 2,000,000 gold vanity mount just to try to get some of it out of the economy.

Despite this, their plex tokens have consistently sold for ~50,000 gold.

Your fears are unwarranted.

you did not address what I was talking about. It is not a fear, I am TELLING YOU what will happen. Give me more power at the expense of most of the playerbase, hf.

[RichardButte]

Actually they are 160k now on NA. (Multiple reasons, one of the main reasons is it can be turned into battle.net balance now).

When they launched they were worth 10-20k.

Ah yeah, that's right: you can sell them back to Blizzard now.

Still, 160k was nothing to the people who were sitting at gold cap in WoW, and it still didn't adversely affect the economy.

I am TELLING YOU what will happen.

I can tell you things as well.

For example, I can tell you that I'm typing this post from my home in the underwater city of Atlantis, where our advanced technology allows my people to tap in to your surface internet. We do this because, while we Atlanteans may possess the secrets of eternal life, how to cure all diseases, and effortlessly producing unlimited quantities of nourishing food, you surface people still have us beat in video games and adult entertainment.

We can tell each other these and plenty of other things. Doesn't mean either of us is right...

Give me more power at the expense of most of the playerbase, hf.

You won't have "power" over anything.

If the gold barons of WoW, armed with automated 3rd party addons that monitor market fluctuations across literally all servers to build their fortunes based off of the algorithms detected in price changes didn't break WoW's economy, no one in FFXIV is even going to come close...

And WoW's economy, like XIV's, is one where currency is worthless to plenty of players because they have nothing to spend it on.

The only reason I'm against this is because gil is not a necessity, especially if you don't craft or gather. The average Joe player does not really need bags of gold to sustain themselves. The vast majority of battle content means you aren't using gil for anything but teleporting and repairing. Hell, the game even offers you materia on a plate.

But, for as little gil as people supposedly need, RMT barkers are still everywhere, which means that SOMEONE is buying gil from them, otherwise they wouldn't be advertising.

[Snow_Princess]

This is smarmy. Unnecessary and smug sounding. That's what I was referring to.


I'm not sure what confusing language I'm using. I am NOT against PLEX, I am against ILLEGAL RMT's. However I also understand that RMT happens whether or not we want it toand PLEX would funnel the money to a better place AND likely eliminate gil seller spam and bots (somewhat).
I understand what you're saying, but you're out and out ignoring what I'm expressing: People are already able to buy , with gil, the top tier equipment according to you. This means that with enough effort, anyone can farm Gil and kit out their characters at their own pace. hence it's NOT timegated. TIMEGATED items like tomestone gear CANNOT be affected by RMT , either illegal OR dev run.

Neither of us knows , for sure , what this would do to the economy because neither of us can fortell the future. But I can say for sure it would reduce illegal RMT and put money in SE's pocket instead since people are definitely WILLING to exchange money for Gil (or the gil sellers wouldn't be doing it) and eliminating the risk of banning would make people much more likely to use the legal channel.

It would also put a hard value on Gil, which may end up HELPING the economy if people can finally have a reference other than "oh hey.. people are selling this for 2 million right now". IF we had plex they could go "well, 15 dollars buys me 10 million gil, is that minion worth 15 dollars?"

You are wrong, I did not ignore that point:

surely you realize it been illegal and the prices is a deterrent?

Also it is not hard to look what the value would be. a month sub is 9-15 dollars depending what account you have and sign up for (or is it 8.99 for legacy + 6 months?) There is a lot of things on the mog station that cost more then this that people buy in the range of 2-5 M ( I actually do not remember but it was in this range and not a lot) granted it is likely due to the fact it is still discouraged, so the demand gets unknown, devaluing the real cost.

For "ILLEGAL RMT's" why are you against it? do you even know why it is a violation and the logic behind it?

That is all you care about? OF COURSE that will happen! but it will reck havoc on the game's enon, something that is not well off as is. I tried to explain what will happen when you suddenly let people buy gil freely (basically) The only unknown here is to what extent would people holding gil buy? Because there is a very limited number of them , but they hold tons of gil. This does largely depend on people knowing how to value things. Meaning at first release if they are sold for 2-5 M each, someone is gonna stockpile them, till people realize it is set too low, sell them for a higher amount, then the people with stockpiles releases theirs.

In the end of the day there is not enough things to buy to warrant it. All it would do is make the housing situation worse, trying to bride people in seeing houses for 400-1000 dollar sub times. You NEED to fix the games encon before you put this system in. Do you even realize how much gil is being horded?

And WoW's economy, like XIV's, is one where currency is worthless to plenty of players because they have nothing to spend it on.

Wrong, there is a housing shortage where a system like this would wreak havoc on. As far as I know this situation does not exist in any other MNO. People buy ... well i know back in the day I rejected an offer for to sell a large, wanting more then 100 M in an unfavorable location. I do not know the amount, but I did file a report for them asking too much. But I would venture a guess some houses sell for 200-400 M on other websites. What you think will happen when you throw in legal RMT in the mix of a really bad shortage like that? There are people that have an insane amount of gil stockpiles, and what do you think will happen if you put that in circulation?

FFXI is proof what happens when you release flood gates, ever hear of the story of a a gil sale one christmas? It would be much worse here because of the housing shortage. You know.. something that is so unstable people buy them at 100-400 M at times? without RMT involvement.

[Krotoan]

You are wrong, I did not ignore that point:

nothing you said here says anything about how purchasing gear for gil is not a timegated thing and therefore timegated progression is not affected by direct money-gil conversion. I'm not implying people are buying gil with real money and buying gear, I'm saying that people who put in time to farm gil at their own pace are already to unrestricted buy better gear on their own schedule. I might be sounding repetitive but I cannot think of another way to express this.

For "ILLEGAL RMT's" why are you against it? do you even know why it is a violation and the logic behind it?

again: Illegal RMT funds bots, spammers and creates incentive for flooding of our economy from those bots who don't have to sleep or rest. All of those affect me negatively and therefore I am against it.
SE likely is against it because it uses their resources to create money for someone else, which is a bad position for any company and loses them subscribers who don't want to deal with said bots/spammers and distantly since we have games of chance in within the mechanic of this game there could be problems with actual legal gambling regulations if gil can be converted back to money (which Dev driven RMT cannot be).

In the end of the day there is not enough things to buy to warrant it. All it would do is make the housing situation worse, trying to bride people in seeing houses for 400-1000 dollar sub times. You NEED to fix the games encon before you put this system in. Do you even realize how much gil is being horded?

Just because you do not value your gil, doesn't mean others also don't. I will agree the ILLEGAL HOUSE FLIPPING market will get ridiculous. But those can be reported or , more hopefully, SE has a plan to make housing more available.
I have no doubt people have up to their max characters on the servers, each with both retainers stuffed to the gills with... Gil. That's on them. Once the gil gets redistributed to people who will actually spend it? it may be chaotic for a while but it will be balanced eventually.. or SE will be FORCED to deal with it. I have no problem with either situation.

Wrong, there is a housing shortage where a system like this would wreak havoc on. As far as I know this situation does not exist in any other MNO. People buy ... well i know back in the day I rejected an offer for to sell a large, wanting more then 100 M in an unfavorable location. I do not know the amount, but I did file a report for them asking too much. But I would venture a guess some houses sell for 200-400 M on other websites. What you think will happen when you throw in legal RMT in the mix of a really bad shortage like that? There are people that have an insane amount of gil stockpiles, and what do you think will happen if you put that in circulation?

FFXI is proof what happens when you release flood gates, ever hear of the story of a a gil sale one christmas? It would be much worse here because of the housing shortage. You know.. something that is so unstable people buy them at 100-400 M at times? without RMT involvement.

People can toss around their Gil how they like, I'll still be able to hunt/venture for my mats and sell them at the new "ridiculous" prices and get my piece of the crazyness. A house coming off of a demo timer won't be any more expensive (which is the current SE condoned method of acquiring a house) and anyone trying to flip them for even more money is subject to GM action (or once again.. maybe SE will actually do something if it becomes an epidemic, or MORE of an epidemic for those of you who will scream it already is).

[RichardButte]

What you think will happen when you throw in legal RMT in the mix of a really bad shortage like that? There are people that have an insane amount of gil stockpiles, and what do you think will happen if you put that in circulation?

One of the reasons (if not THE reason) people have these "insane stockpiles" of gil is due to RMT bots farming up massive amounts of gil, which in turn causes rampant inflation.

Curbing RMT makes in-game prices go back to being reasonable because once all of the excess money has left the market, there aren't as many RMT bots around to cause inflation.

There is no additional currency being generated via plex, it's just one player giving money to another player.

In the case of RMT, automated programs are literally left running for the specific purpose of generating mountains of gil to sell to players. Subtract this gil and things would be better all around.

what makes you think they can handle econ crises that may come out of introducing the plex system here? or comment on an issue with 200+ likes?)

First of all, them commenting on threads has zero correlation to how they handle the economy.

Second, if they want to add more gil sinks, like I said earlier, just throw some 50 million gil mounts on a vendor somewhere (like WoW did).

Third, there won't be an economic crisis. There wasn't one in EVE, there wasn't one in WoW, and there won't be one here.

Stop "Chicken Littling".

[Krotoan]

surely you realize it been illegal and the prices is a deterrent? I do not know what you are ultimately trying to show with this post though. I know the reasoning why the time gating is there, I was not asking why it was there. I was explaining why it makes no sense and why it would make even less sense with the plex system, along with making the econ issue worse.

I was assuming you understood that this was IF "plex" was a thing. I don't support gil farmer RMT. That would be idiotic. It floods the economy and ruins most peoples experience with spam and bots. I apologize I didn't make that clearer.

You originally said:

Easy, the same arguments people use for why all the pointless time gating is a "good thing" for the game. You can't have people being far ahead because of RMT, people will complain.

Stating the argument against Dev RMT was the same as Time gating. I explained it wouldn't let you get ahead because the only thing it affected wasn't "time gated" and threw in why I've deduced time gating has been implemented by the devs.


Does that make it clearer?

Smarmy comments don't help anything by the way. Please keep those to a minimum and I'll return the courtesy. I've shown you respect and patience in every exchange, have I not?