Why no Plex system?

[Krotoan]

Those pockets don't get deeper by themselves. The effort cost is there, it just doesn't take place in FFXIV.

This is the part I don't believe most understand. I think a lot of the opposition thinks some people just magically have more money.
I has a job, I work a lot. I play FFXIV to relax, not to put in another 40 hours a week farming for stuff. My time is worth significantly more than 15 extra dollars a week.. or even 100. Giving your players the option to trade money for removing tedium is smart.
In the end we are all spending TIME. How you spend it is entirely up to you though.

[frostmagemari]

This is the part I don't believe most understand. I think a lot of the opposition thinks some people just magically have more money.
I has a job, I work a lot. I play FFXIV to relax, not to put in another 40 hours a week farming for stuff. My time is worth significantly more than 15 extra dollars a week.. or even 100. Giving your players the option to trade money for removing tedium is smart.
In the end we are all spending TIME. How you spend it is entirely up to you though.

I don't know why people seem to think that the gil would just appear from no where... but people seem to.

I really don't see the adverse effects people are being all apocalyptic about either. Having the game-time tokens sellable on the marketplace wouldn't cause inflation, if anything, it'd do a good bit of evening out the disparity in gil. People who have tons of gil are able to spend it on tokens that will usually be sold by those who have more RL money than they do time to make in-game gil. You'll rarely find the person with 100million gil selling the tokens, but you'll definitely see him buying them and spreading the gil in the system around more.
All the while, you give people less and less reason to buy from gil sellers; people who actively bring more gil into the system more than any individual player via their farming methods.
Left untouched, this game's economy will become near the situation that XI found itself in, and i'd rather not have to pay those prices again.

[Snow_Princess]

This is the part I don't believe most understand. I think a lot of the opposition thinks some people just magically have more money.
I has a job, I work a lot. I play FFXIV to relax, not to put in another 40 hours a week farming for stuff. My time is worth significantly more than 15 extra dollars a week.. or even100. Giving your players the option to trade money for removing tedium is smart.
In the end we are all spending TIME. How you spend it is entirely up to you though.

I get that, I really do, my opposition has nothing to do with impeed's someone enjoyment of the game because they make more money in RL. That is fine and something that should be considered when making extra stuff in the mog station and what prices to set for all the extra stuff.

I am opposed to it because the game's econ can't support it, it is the worst econ system I seen. First off the rich simply horde gil because there is nothing to do with it, they have the power to buy 10+ large if they could, some people have cap gil (999~ basically a billion gil on more then one retainer.) Now picture gil like this more in circulation for many to hold what happens? The housing shortage gets even worse, more people try flip them dispite being against the tos, and it may even provoke those that do not know better to monopolize the MB. If you can do it on a huge server such as mine what about the smaller ones? If the game econ actually was active I would think different but in the current state it just cause problems.

More gil spread around = more server load problems when housing is released then what we had on 3.4. I tried logging on the second servers went up but got disconnected twice because the congestion was unreal. The only way to solve it is to have more ways to spend gil, and raise the housing prices. IF SE can't meet the demands of housing, they need to increase the price and have the price balance things. People complained about 70 ish mil for larges when housing was first released because people had 1/100th of the gil they have today. They make the prices smaller when there is an af ton more gil being horded and that doesn't make sense to me.

You are going to have people spending 400-1000+ dollars on housing if they released this, that is how much people have gil wise, and how big the shortage is. Once you move that in RL, the prices are going to get insane till it finds a balance. Trust me I seen those 1k + KC stories, do not think the same will happen with housing should such a system get released.

Despite the huge benefit I would get if this should be in place, I am still apposed to it because of all the problems it would cause. Personally I would benefit, np but the general health of the econ be exponentially worse then what we see now.

[frostmagemari]

More gil spread around = more server load problems when housing is released then what we had on 3.4. I tried logging on the second servers went up but got disconnected twice because the congestion was unreal.

You do realize that Balmung had a FAR FAR larger population than it does now? at the best days prior to SB dropping, you still had queue times of hundreds of people. Now the highest queue i've seen is 30 people during prime time.
Balmung congestion was caused by being Balmung. The server had such a heavy load on it already that anything that sparked peoples interest would bring hundreds of players online because of the allure of whatever it was. Most of those people aren't on the server anymore.. We're still full, but no where near what we were.

That being said, the game could use a lot more gil sinks, useful gil sinks; but this isn't an either/or situation. There can be multiple solutions to the problem that the game faces.. more gil sinks (one option is vendor bought untradable items are used within crafting recipes throughout end-game crafting or catch up mechanics) AND a plex system can work in tandem to spread existing gil out, reduce the likely-hood of people buying from gil sellers and then taking gil out of the system via gil sinks.

[Snow_Princess]

You do realize that Balmung had a FAR FAR larger population than it does now? at the best days prior to SB dropping, you still had queue times of hundreds of people. Now the highest queue i've seen is 30 people during prime time.Balmung congestion was caused by being Balmung. The server had such a heavy load on it already that anything that sparked peoples interest would bring hundreds of players online because of the allure of whatever it was. Most of those people aren't on the server anymore.. We're still full, but no where near what we were.

That being said, the game could use a lot more gil sinks, useful gil sinks; but this isn't an either/or situation. There can be multiple solutions to the problem that the game faces.. more gil sinks AND a plex system can work in tandem to spread existing gil out, reduce the likely-hood of people buying from gil sellers and then taking gil out of the system via gil sinks.

Can't do both at once. You would either have to give huge amounts of gil sinks that appear to the rich, while having some appeal to those that have less and wait for like a year?
Or if you want instant fix, you have to remove 75% of the gil and really tick people off.

It would be hard as af to fix at this point. If SE ever wanted a challenge this would be it. Making this mess into a stable and active econ without making most people mad be a huge achievement.

Also are you kidding me on the queue times? Even without change on the current pace of things it would be 5-10x worse when the new housing is released and if this system was to be released say 1 week or more before housing? you be seein queues like you did ending SB early release. Also balmung's queue times is off my point but SE made balmung's queue times bad for 2 reasons. 1. not having an official named rp server (2-3) and 2. not taking earlier actions to attempt to control the population growth. The current state of balmung is is what happens when you ignore problems/warning signs.

[frostmagemari]

Can't do both at once. You would either have to give huge amounts of gil sinks that appear to the rich, while having some appeal to those that have less and wait for like a year?
Or if you want instant fix, you have to remove 75% of the gil and really tick people off.

It would be hard as af to fix at this point. If SE ever wanted a challenge this would be it. Making this mess into a stable and active econ without making most people mad be a huge achievement.

Pardon my assumption.. but i don't think you actually know how the in-game economy works... or really understand what i said regards to solutions.

I never said "huge amounts of gil sinks that appear to the rich", i said useful gil sinks; gil sinks need to appear for everyone or they don't work. There just needs to be more of them.
And who said ANYTHING about removing 75% of the gil? Not me.. that's your own screwy idea that you just brought up so you can knock it down.

Also are you kidding me on the queue times?

No, i'm not. At best you have 30 people in the queue at 6-9pm central time, with it being less at times earlier and after. Balmung, despite being listed as congested is not a hard server to get into on a nightly basis anymore; and these queue times are WITH the people that have gone back to AFK'ing all day long.

Even without change on the current pace of things it would be 5-10x worse when the new housing is released and if this system was to be released say 1 week or more before housing? you be seein queues like you did ending SB early release.

Of course the server will get busier. It's what happens on content patches, but it won't be SB levels of people because so many people LEFT. They transferred and went to the servers that were classified as new. There are far fewer people on this server than there were, and while it will get busy, it will not get SB release busy.

Also balmung's queue times is off my point but SE made balmung's queue times bad for 2 reasons. 1. not having an official named rp server (2-3) and 2. not taking earlier actions to attempt to control the population growth. The current state of balmung is is what happens when you ignore problems/warning signs.

Neither points are relevant at this juncture. Balmung is now one of two major RP servers rather than it being limited to one (due to people leaving the server); and its population isn't getting any larger, it's only able to shrink at this point as people leave congested servers.

[Snow_Princess]

I'm still fuzzy on where "pay to win" is bad in a game where we're all working together? I understand it in a PVP setting (I know there's PVP in this game but as I understand it all applicable gear and progress wouldn't be affected by lots of gil) where if someone can buy a bigger better gun than youcan then it feels unfair when they shoot you and your little f2p peashooter does nothing back. But ... we're fighting the bad guys together here, how does someone having their higher gear faster make it unfair for you?

Easy, the same arguments people use for why all the pointless time gating is a "good thing" for the game. You can't have people being far ahead because of RMT, people will complain.

Pardon my assumption.. but i don't think you actually know how the in-game economy works... or really understand what i said regards to solutions.

I never said "huge amounts of gil sinks that appear to the rich", i said useful gil sinks; gil sinks need to appear for everyone or they don't work. There just needs to be more of them.
And who said ANYTHING about removing 75% of the gil? Not me.. that's your own screwy idea that you just brought up so you can knock it down.


No, i'm not. At best you have 30 people in the queue at 6-9pm central time, with it being less at times earlier and after. Balmung, despite being listed as congested is not a hard server to get into on a nightly basis anymore; and these queue times are WITH the people that have gone back to AFK'ing all day long.


Of course the server will get busier. It's what happens on content patches, but it won't be SB levels of people because so many people LEFT. They transferred and went to the servers that were classified as new. There are far fewer people on this server than there were, and while it will get busy, it will not get SB release busy.


Neither points are relevant at this juncture. Balmung is now one of two major RP servers rather than it being limited to one (due to people leaving the server); and its population isn't getting any larger, it's only able to shrink at this point as people leave congested servers.

I will try one more time I guess... you are clearly not understanding me.

That being said, the game could use a lot more gil sinks, useful gil sinks; but this isn't an either/or situation. There can be multiple solutions to the problem that the game faces.. more gil sinks (one option is vendor bought untradable items are used within crafting recipes throughout end-game crafting or catch up mechanics) AND a plex system can work in tandem to spread existing gil out, reduce the likely-hood of people buying from gil sellers and then taking gil out of the system via gil sinks.

My point is you can't release huge changes to the econ and plex system at the same time. There is a good number of a select few that has tons of gil. You completely missed what I was saying when I was moving " take 75% gil from everyone to fix it", because that is how broken it is now. You would need a year or more while giving the rich enough gil sinks to impact their hording. If you can't make enough gil sink to have some kind of impact on the rich, you are still going to run into the same problems as now entering the plex system. How often do you craft? How often do you track who sells what? Some people come and go, make a thing here and there while there is a select few, that keep replacing and replacing and making tons of money. If you think the server transfers had a huge impact on how much gil this server has you are very mistaken, if that is the reason you went on that topic, I am shocked. You think I do not understand the in game encon? Then go ahead, release the plex system while I stand above the fire and grin with my free sub and larger incomes. The reason you do not see hyperinflation and why it is somewhat controlled has to do with the gil hording as a slight benefit to the problem. You release those flood gates giving people free sub, there be a drastic increase in gil in circulation, or horde themselves for housing. You think queue times is a good indicator? that is also looking at only the surface issue. Before SB, when HW was ending, ofc there be a spike in activity, some people where preparing. Then you have to consider even after the server move motivation and the afk thing, housing was still congested, as in I couldn't enter the house because too many are loaded.

With people saving up more to prepare for the housing and having more then ever before because the inflation is keep getting worse and worse, there WILL be a higher demand for housing then 3.4 and if you add the plex system on top of it, the servers are likely to explode.

Right now FFXIV's econ is not ready for the flex system, it would start chaos because how badly built it is currently, cause too much demand for housing, you get insane real dollar values for them. This is not limited to balmung. So basically you did not say anything to counter that main point.

I know how markets work. I literally am studying economics in between posts here. There is more than enough gil in the market to have tokens are the very minimum selling for a million gil. More realistically, considering there are players with literally hundreds of millions of gil, they would be going for several million gil each. Further, because the tokens are a consumed commodity, people will keep buying them every month and as the price of the tokens goes up, those who play the market will look to generate more cash, particularly if the people who have sold tokens start increasing demand on the high value items like the high ilvl combat gear. These factors will put upward pressure on prices. Why? Because that is literally how it works in the real marketplace and that is a place where regulation is designed to control those factors.

Your completely missing the point here. At the end of the day, this system will allow you to buy gear just short of the best available in a tier with real money. That is Play-to-Win. It fundamentally devalues alternative methods of gear progression. Could they spend it on something else? Sure. However that doesn't change the fact they can, and will, buy gear that only Savage raiding can out do with real money under such a system.

The only way around this would be to change what high level crafters can make but that in turn will effect the reward value for the effort it takes to be a high level crafter.

You forgot to add that people buy gil in this manner do not truly understand the value of items in said game (due to getting a large chuck without effort) this leads to them overpaying for top items, and you want proof? see the hyper inflation of the xmas sales in ffxi. So putting that in a slow moving encon like ffxiv and you get a perfect storm for an econ disaster. People forget it takes time to make something, so with a plex system + new patch, that new crafted gear would be insanely inflated.

I am apposed to it because I know what will happen to the general populace, I would benefit BIG TIME, and I doubt any token buyers will benefit in the long run. Basically it will make the rich, richer + free sub while middle and low end (who do not buy or those that did buy but don't keep buying) will suffer as far as long term.

[Krotoan]

Easy, the same arguments people use for why all the pointless time gating is a "good thing" for the game. You can't have people being far ahead because of RMT, people will complain.

People will complain no matter what is done. People complain when something is on the mogstation, people complain when something ISN'T available on the mogstation. People complained that housing was to expensive, people complain housing is too cheap. People complain that content is too difficult, people complain content is too easy.

This is not an argument. People complain about EVERYTHING.

Time gating is present to keep you from burning through all the content immediately and keep people playing longer. Buying craftable armor that isn't time gated anyway isn't circumventing this.

[Snow_Princess]

People will complain no matter what is done. People complain when something is on the mogstation, people complain when something ISN'T available on the mogstation. People complained that housing was to expensive, people complain housing is too cheap. People complain that content is too difficult, people complain content is too easy.
This is not an argument. People complain about EVERYTHING.

Time gating is present to keep you from burning through all the content immediately and keep people playing longer. Buying craftable armor that isn't time gated anyway isn't circumventing this.

Watching people defeat their own stance is so much fun <3
Lets use the current game for example, For some jobs penta meld 320 is better then the 340, so how is this not "circumventing the time gating"? Basically this means, what we went though for 4.06, the content delta normal would be outdated content before you could even collect a body from it, for people buying a token to gear in full 320 and jumping in savage with their penta melded gear.

Also seeing it does out perform some 340s for some jobs, where does that put creation gear as well? lul Or even worse, plex to buy the WT gear, those would get inflated up the rear if they released this.

[Krotoan]

Watching people defeat their own stance is so much fun <3
Lets use the current game for example, For some jobs penta meld 320 is better then the 340, so how is this not "circumventing the time gating"? Basically this means, what we went though for 4.06, the content delta normal would be outdated content before you could even collect a body from it, for people buying a token to gear in full 320 and jumping in savage with their penta melded gear.

Also seeing it does out perform some 340s for some jobs, where does that put creation gear as well? lul Or even worse, plex to buy the WT gear, those would get inflated up the rear if they released this.

Because by your own "gil is worthless" stance.. people in game can ALREADY buy themselves to that. There is nothing someone who is buying the gil can do that someone else who is just hoarding the gil can't do just as quickly.

Not timegated.

I'm not here to argue whether timegating is a good idea or not. I'm stating why it's there.