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  1. #1
    Player
    Grayve's Avatar
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    Mar 2014
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    Limsa Lominsa
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    593
    Character
    Kharagan Dotharl
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 90
    Didn't Sadu take down juggernauts with magic during the Doma raid? And Sunbro solo'd one with an axe... I dont know, when I saw that cutscene, I figured Garlean only had arial superiority because no other faction had flying mounts. AFAIK the Ala Migho Griffin calvary was gone, and none of the other city states had air cavalry.
    (0)

  2. #2
    Player
    Daralii's Avatar
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    Jul 2015
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    3,166
    Character
    Endris Caemwynn
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Grayve View Post
    Didn't Sadu take down juggernauts with magic during the Doma raid? And Sunbro solo'd one with an axe... I dont know, when I saw that cutscene, I figured Garlean only had arial superiority because no other faction had flying mounts. AFAIK the Ala Migho Griffin calvary was gone, and none of the other city states had air cavalry.
    Yeah, the yol riders were the main defense against juggernauts during our attack on the castle. Doma might not have fallen in the first place if the auri communities weren't so isolationist.
    (2)

  3. #3
    Player
    Wyssahtyn's Avatar
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    May 2017
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    870
    Character
    Saika Kinoshita
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    Rogue Lv 53
    Quote Originally Posted by Enkidoh View Post
    He stated he was "shot down by the Maelstrom", and even though I concede he did not specifically state it was a cannon that laid his craft low, come on, to say otherwise is just splitting hairs, a pistol shot is not going to lay a Juggernaut low, only heavy firepower like the cannons on the Maelstrom's warships could do the job.
    Allow me to clarify, I was contesting your quoting of a statement that the NPC never made. I have once again gone over all of Drest's dialogue with Garland Tools and at no point does he even hint that he was "shot down by the Maelstrom". He and his men were only ambushed by them and with Castrum Occidens literally being down the road, it's just as, if not more, likely that his unit was a simple ground patrol, if they were even deployed from there. Drest has been a deserter for three years by the time you meet him and a journal entry suggests that he had eventually found his way to his shack in Vylbrand some time during that period. I don't know where you're getting the conclusion that the juggernaut wreckage in Eastern La Noscea is specifically linked to him aside from the coincidence of proximity.Is it from 1.0 dialogue? A sightseeing log? Because with the absence of dialogue to support your quote it's equally likely that the juggernaut was there before Drest came along or even succumbed to mechanical/pilot error before subsequently being abandoned when they couldn't get it out of the marsh rather than enemy fire.

    Quote Originally Posted by Enkidoh View Post
    Either way, the Empire being able to manufacture such a material would not be surprising, given that the materials that their soldiers' uniforms are made from appears to be synthetic and/or exotic (and which Eorzeans are incapable of manufacturing themselves). But that does not mean they're indestructible (if that was the case their troops would be literally invincible!) - when we have to source some Garlean uniforms in order to sneak into Castrum Centri we end up badly tearing them when we 'relieve them' from their former owners, the fact mere sword/spear/axe blows/arrow shots/fist hits/magic spells can damage them all but shows that their materials are not as hard wearing as they seem.
    Uh. You're referring to light infantry armor which, by that fact alone, is going to be nowhere near as effective as vehicle armor. The durability example was specifically referring to vehicle armor; not that I said it was indestructible either. I stated that Eorzean artillery would have little effect against the armor plating because I assume that their cannons fire round shot or some sort of explosive or shrapnel shell since shaped charges akin to anti-tank rounds are a little too modern to be believable for the Eorzeans to have. Sustained fire would eventually get through the armor. A lot of hits, since I believe their propellant, firesand, is supposed to be analogous to black powder, which shouldn't be able to reach the velocity necessary to penetrate the armor. Round shot would literally bounce off.

    Back to the infantry armor. By the time of the WoL's infiltration of Castrum Centri, he's killed two primals and has (hopefully) picked up at least one job crystal, thus making him a far more fiercer, and effective, combatant than your average Eorzean sellsword. In addition to that, provided that the Garleans follow typical standards of balancing mobility and protection, there are going to be weak points, generally the joints, groin, armpits, neck, etc. Also their armor doesn't protect against blunt force trauma with the exception of the helm. To a point.

    Their uniforms are made of "carbon and cermet fibers", which confuses me somewhat given that from what I've read, carbon fiber is a skin irritant even with the resin coating and also prone to damage. I assume that SE meant Kevlar/aramid fibers rather than carbon fibers. But in any case, sustained hits would eventually be effective and blunt force trauma, from fists, shields, sword pommels, axes, books, or what have you, would not be protected against to any great effect.

    Quote Originally Posted by Enkidoh View Post
    Again you are taking everything at face value. Yes cutscenes do often throw actual gameplay functionality to the wind, but the point is, it shows magic can be more than a match for Garlean technology (I mean, back up: why else did Garlemald develop magitek in the first place? They couldn't use magic!) That doesn't mean magitek is superior to magic after all, it just means they can fight on equal terms.
    To clarify once more, I was contesting your word choice, not magic's efficacy against magitek. It was and is obviously effective, my issue was with the use of the word "mere" downplaying the shown necessary magical power (they look like -ga/III level spells) to decisively eliminate Garlean armor in one attack.
    (1)
    Last edited by Wyssahtyn; 08-27-2017 at 09:47 PM. Reason: This character limit is troublesome

  4. #4
    Player
    Rhykin's Avatar
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    Ul'Dah
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    23
    Character
    Khitana Smallmoon
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Wyssahtyn View Post
    To clarify once more, I was contesting your word choice, not magic's efficacy against magitek. It was and is obviously effective, my issue was with the use of the word "mere" downplaying the shown necessary magical power (they look like -ga/III level spells) to decisively eliminate Garlean armor in one attack.
    This also exposes an interesting gap in the Ala Mhigan and Doman Theatres. Garlemald KNOWS how to more effectively armor their Reapers against magic. The Gilded Magitek mount specifically mentions its gold plated armor turns spells more effectively and is now standard issue... yet I don't recall seeing a single one...
    (0)

  5. #5
    Player
    Wyssahtyn's Avatar
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    May 2017
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    Character
    Saika Kinoshita
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    Rogue Lv 53
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhykin View Post
    This also exposes an interesting gap in the Ala Mhigan and Doman Theatres. Garlemald KNOWS how to more effectively armor their Reapers against magic. The Gilded Magitek mount specifically mentions its gold plated armor turns spells more effectively and is now standard issue... yet I don't recall seeing a single one...
    SE probably forgot.

    Or it's standard issue only to Garlean purebloods/senior officers like tribunes.

    Or it's standard issue in name, but the reality is that they haven't phased out/upgraded the older model. Which makes more sense, now that I think about it. Ala Mhigo and Doma are on the fringes of the Empire's territory. Probably haven't gotten the good toys yet. Remember Raubahn Savage? I think you only see that model of vanguard like, twice in the whole expansion. Once in that duty and at least once more in the Ala Mhigo dungeon.
    (2)

  6. #6
    Player
    VargasVermillion's Avatar
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    Ul'dah
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    Character
    Val Vermillion
    World
    Tonberry
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Wyssahtyn View Post
    Remember Raubahn Savage? I think you only see that model of vanguard like, twice in the whole expansion. Once in that duty and at least once more in the Ala Mhigo dungeon.
    First boss of Doma castle as well, so that's 3 I remember.
    (1)

  7. #7
    Player
    Cilia's Avatar
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    Sep 2013
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    The Hermit's Hovel
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    Character
    Trpimir Ratyasch
    World
    Lamia
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 100
    The Gilded Magitek Mount states that an alloy is now standard issue. If we're to assume the one we get is plated in pure gold, that's not going to offer Reapers much physical defense, which would make it much easier to defeat them with physical weapons. What is standard issue isn't pure gold plate like the Gilded one, but alloyed plating - a combination of two or more metals, likely gold and whatever else standard plating is made out of to reach a compromise between magickal resistance and physical sturdiness. We don't see gold-plated Reapers all over the place because our Gilded one is likely a prototype or show model, not standard issue.

    Gold is a very soft metal.
    (1)
    Trpimir Ratyasch's Way Status (7.3 - End)
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    "There is no hope in stubbornly clinging to the past. It is our duty to face the future and march onward, not retreat inward." -Sovetsky Soyuz, Azur Lane: Snowrealm Peregrination

  8. #8
    Player
    VargasVermillion's Avatar
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    Ul'dah
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    Val Vermillion
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    Tonberry
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    Paladin Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Cilia View Post
    The Gilded Magitek Mount states that an alloy is now standard issue. If we're to assume the one we get is plated in pure gold, that's not going to offer Reapers much physical defense, which would make it much easier to defeat them with physical weapons. What is standard issue isn't pure gold plate like the Gilded one, but alloyed plating - a combination of two or more metals, likely gold and whatever else standard plating is made out of to reach a compromise between magickal resistance and physical sturdiness. We don't see gold-plated Reapers all over the place because our Gilded one is likely a prototype or show model, not standard issue.

    Gold is a very soft metal.
    I don't think they are literally gold plated, I assume it was just a function of a higher quality plating similar to gaius's armour in which you can switch it on when required.
    (0)

  9. #9
    Player
    Cilia's Avatar
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    Sep 2013
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    The Hermit's Hovel
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    3,698
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    Trpimir Ratyasch
    World
    Lamia
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by VargasVermillion View Post
    I don't think they are literally gold plated, I assume it was just a function of a higher quality plating similar to gaius's armour in which you can switch it on when required.
    But Gaius' armor acted more as a power booster than a magickal dampener... implicitly, at any rate.

    According to the Gilded Magitek Armor, "alloyed gilding" is "standard issue." Just say they painted over the gilding since everyone running around in golden magitek armor would be too much of an eyesore. Either way, magicks are still effective against Garlean warmachina, which is implicitly how the Eorzeans deal with them, and as shown by Magnai during the assault on Doma Castle, sufficiently powerful martial arms can work on warmachina as well.

    It's a fantasy world. Just because the Garleans have sturdy real-world materials doesn't mean they'll be able to barrel through any and everything in their way with nary a scratch when you have people who can call down comets on them.
    (1)
    Trpimir Ratyasch's Way Status (7.3 - End)
    [ ]LOST [ ]NOT LOST [X]TRAUNT!
    "There is no hope in stubbornly clinging to the past. It is our duty to face the future and march onward, not retreat inward." -Sovetsky Soyuz, Azur Lane: Snowrealm Peregrination

  10. #10
    Player
    Rasler_Heios's Avatar
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    Aug 2017
    Location
    Ul'dah
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    284
    Character
    Rasler-heios Nabradia
    World
    Tonberry
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 90
    I would like to see Thavnair, Sharlayan, the other continents, Dalmasca and other Ivalice-related areas, the 1.x areas that are no longer accessible and the world where the Warriors of Darkness came from
    (3)


    "Is adventuring not supposed to be glorious? I thought it was supposed to be glorious." - Vath Deftarm, Dravanian Hinterlands, An Acquired Taste
    "That's a fine accomplishment lad. Young and lusty as you are, no doubt you'll achieve much and more in the years to come. I look forward to hearin' all your deeds." - Jonathas, Master of the Rolls, Old Gridania

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