Tank role action complaint time

[Tridus]

You're analysis is the very opposite of what SE aimed to achieve with the role skills.
You say that mandatory skill like provoke should be a native tank skill but that exactly the whole point of the role skill concept. To define a baseline set of tools that should be available to all tanks, some being straight mandatory and others situationals.

Yep, exactly right. The problem here is that people got the idea that it's supposed to be a bunch of optional skills and give you choices. It's not. Some of them are simply must take so that everybody has a baseline set of abilities, and maybe you get a choice or two left over. DPS seems to have the most "optional" ones, but tanks and healers have core stuff in there that simply must be taken and not a lot of room left afterward.

If you think of it that way, it works better. Although stuff like Esuna that is mandatory on one fight and literally does nothing on the next one are quite a pain with the system, since without macro writing it's not convenient to swap them in and out. (Protect is even worse, but the pain on that one can be automated away by a single macro.)

[Gravton]

So then not "better". If they are baseline skills that every tank needs then why have role actions at all? Why not just make them lvl. one actions for the tank itself? If they are not suppose to give us choices then how come we can only "choose" 5 at a time? The whole thing doesn't make sense to me. They didn't think job/class was a good idea, but instead of changing it they just watered it down to job/role.

[Aana]

There's 2 ways to look at the philosophy.

A: They are baseline tools so all (future) tanks have the mandatory capabilities covered. EG: Provoke, mitigation (rampart), etc and have the same situational options available. Stun/Silence etc. Same as protect/Esuna for healers.
Problem: DPS don't have this situation so they have true options/flexibility. Thus it still feels unfair for tanks/heals.



B: They are designed as flexible options to swap every fight.
Problem: They don't achieve that goal with so many being mandatory on tanks/heals.

Any way you look it has a problem. Either it feels like tanks/heals got the short end of the stick, or the actions don't serve their purpose as true flexible options. You could just have Provoke and Rampart given at lv 1 and give tanks 3 role slots and we would have the same situation. The system gets the job done, and its better than the old days of wars and drks not having provoke because no gladiator, but it still has room to improve.

[Gravton]

Yeah, I'll concede that this is better for new players. What about the tanks that have been playing for 4 years and already had the abilities unlocked? This system isn't better for them, we only lost, we didn't gain. I don't expect it to change, it's just annoying.

[finders]

Yeah, I'll concede that this is better for new players. What about the tanks that have been playing for 4 years and already had the abilities unlocked? This system isn't better for them, we only lost, we didn't gain. I don't expect it to change, it's just annoying.

what makes you annoyed?

[Mekhana]

Ultimatum had some use back in launch when we had enmity issues due to changes and our low dps, especially at the early 60s. Right now though, it would be cool if they made it a defensive CD, sorta how like Flash used to be. Since Blind doesn't work for SB anymore a debuff that reduces damage from the taunted targets would be sweet. We could pop it at the start of an add wave or something.

[Shinkyo]

Ultimatum had some use back in launch when we had enmity issues due to changes and our low dps, especially at the early 60s. Right now though, it would be cool if they made it a defensive CD, sorta how like Flash used to be. Since Blind doesn't work for SB anymore a debuff that reduces damage from the taunted targets would be sweet. We could pop it at the start of an add wave or something.

Pretty sure it won't take long for SE to introduce a multimob tank swap (Ultimate Bahamut?), in which can Ultimatum will be mandatory.

[Mycow8me]

Pretty sure it won't take long for SE to introduce a multimob tank swap (Ultimate Bahamut?), in which can Ultimatum will be mandatory.

Actually, now that I've just read this statement. I wonder if shirk applies to all mobs on your hate list or the very top one only? I'm unable to do a test at this time Theoretically you could do this using shirk alone if it worked this way and you are careful. This would avoid the need of bringing 3 hate control role skills and save a 3rd for supporting skills if there are supporting skills you find more useful to bring anyway.

Actually shirk is somewhat of a moot skill when they could just make provoke/ultimatum put you at the top of the list and steal 25% hate from the person with the highest at the time of use.

[Jollyy5]

It has probably been said already, but I do like how Shirk allows both tanks stay in DPS stance and not use enmity combos in Susano EX, for example.

[Paiyne]

I believe shirk applies to everything you are currently on the hate list for, since you don't need a target for it