Tank role action complaint time

[Aana]

There's 2 ways to look at the philosophy.

A: They are baseline tools so all (future) tanks have the mandatory capabilities covered. EG: Provoke, mitigation (rampart), etc and have the same situational options available. Stun/Silence etc. Same as protect/Esuna for healers.
Problem: DPS don't have this situation so they have true options/flexibility. Thus it still feels unfair for tanks/heals.



B: They are designed as flexible options to swap every fight.
Problem: They don't achieve that goal with so many being mandatory on tanks/heals.

Any way you look it has a problem. Either it feels like tanks/heals got the short end of the stick, or the actions don't serve their purpose as true flexible options. You could just have Provoke and Rampart given at lv 1 and give tanks 3 role slots and we would have the same situation. The system gets the job done, and its better than the old days of wars and drks not having provoke because no gladiator, but it still has room to improve.

[Gravton]

Yeah, I'll concede that this is better for new players. What about the tanks that have been playing for 4 years and already had the abilities unlocked? This system isn't better for them, we only lost, we didn't gain. I don't expect it to change, it's just annoying.

[finders]

Yeah, I'll concede that this is better for new players. What about the tanks that have been playing for 4 years and already had the abilities unlocked? This system isn't better for them, we only lost, we didn't gain. I don't expect it to change, it's just annoying.

what makes you annoyed?

[Mekhana]

Ultimatum had some use back in launch when we had enmity issues due to changes and our low dps, especially at the early 60s. Right now though, it would be cool if they made it a defensive CD, sorta how like Flash used to be. Since Blind doesn't work for SB anymore a debuff that reduces damage from the taunted targets would be sweet. We could pop it at the start of an add wave or something.

[Shinkyo]

Ultimatum had some use back in launch when we had enmity issues due to changes and our low dps, especially at the early 60s. Right now though, it would be cool if they made it a defensive CD, sorta how like Flash used to be. Since Blind doesn't work for SB anymore a debuff that reduces damage from the taunted targets would be sweet. We could pop it at the start of an add wave or something.

Pretty sure it won't take long for SE to introduce a multimob tank swap (Ultimate Bahamut?), in which can Ultimatum will be mandatory.

[Mycow8me]

Pretty sure it won't take long for SE to introduce a multimob tank swap (Ultimate Bahamut?), in which can Ultimatum will be mandatory.

Actually, now that I've just read this statement. I wonder if shirk applies to all mobs on your hate list or the very top one only? I'm unable to do a test at this time Theoretically you could do this using shirk alone if it worked this way and you are careful. This would avoid the need of bringing 3 hate control role skills and save a 3rd for supporting skills if there are supporting skills you find more useful to bring anyway.

Actually shirk is somewhat of a moot skill when they could just make provoke/ultimatum put you at the top of the list and steal 25% hate from the person with the highest at the time of use.

[Jollyy5]

It has probably been said already, but I do like how Shirk allows both tanks stay in DPS stance and not use enmity combos in Susano EX, for example.

[Paiyne]

I believe shirk applies to everything you are currently on the hate list for, since you don't need a target for it

[Leigaon]

This argument goes over also in the healers forum, and what I believe is that this role action is just the tip of the iceberg. There's a lot of room for improvement. I agree some things are mandatory / staples. No one is never not going to use Rampart. Okay so maybe that one guy...

I think what they'll end up doing is make Role Abilities, and make some mandatory / unable to remove, while increasing the slots / other choices and allowing for more customization techniques to go through.

Shirk for example, is a wonderful point in the direction of optional traits. When you start doing any type of customization, you start tipping the scales of balance. I believe you're right, there's no reason to opt out of Rampart for example. Lets realize though they're probably taking baby steps, sooner or later they're going to stand on two feet and start haulin' butt!

[Ekimmak]

I find the issue with the tank role skills is that it's mixed a bunch of defensive cooldowns and utility cooldowns, meaning you'll be missing out on something in the end.

One or the other should be baked into the job from the start. Making both optional and (sort of) mutually exclusive is just irritating, because you end up taking the necessary utilities, and then picking out the remaining best defensives.