Lost Allagan Codex

[Ftail]

I would argue that even though SpS supports DPS, it's a garbage healing stat for SCH.

It's hardly a garbage healing stat for SCH. Sure Crit is better for healing, but to call SS garbage is a gross understatement.

Anyway, since I usually play with a WHM who can almost solo heal all the savage content, I'm usually spending about 80%-90% of my time DPS'ing and managing 3 dots on the boss as the off-healer. Usually when we wipe in savage fights it's to the enrage timer, the more DPS I can pump out for the group, the better I say. Until content that is created that actually makes me struggle with healing groups and I'm not spending the majority of my time dealing damage, I'll consider changing my build.

[Cynfael]

It's hardly a garbage healing stat for SCH. Sure Crit is better for healing, but to call SS garbage is a gross understatement.

What case would you make for SS as a good healing stat for SCH?

You obviously shouldn't prioritize it, but Eos does get a lot faster with SpS.

Unless the interface is lying (not saying this isn't possible, mind you), SS is not affecting faerie cast times or delays.

[Dregenfox]

What case would you make for SS as a good healing stat for SCH?



Unless the interface is lying (not saying this isn't possible, mind you), SS is not affecting faerie cast times or delays.

The interface doesn't show the actual cooldown times, but use it on something long that's classified as a spell like Whispering Dawn, and it'll show the actual cooldown time (usually in the 56-58 range for most SCH). It only works on Embrace and WD, but they're the two most consistenly useful skills as well.

It's harder to notice on Embrace because you need enough for it to actually go down a full second for it to show 2 seconds.

[Ftail]

What case would you make for SS as a good healing stat for SCH?

Other than the obvious... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCDT4bNLla8

Imagine a DPS fucks up and needs to be raised during a fight, he raises at a VERY BAD TIME, and an AOE is coming out to kill him again, being able to aldo the DPS before the raid damage takes place saves him from dying again.

That is just one example, I can think of a dozen other examples where higher SS would help out with healing.

[Cynfael]

Other than the obvious... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCDT4bNLla8

Imagine a DPS fucks up and needs to be raised during a fight, he raises at a VERY BAD TIME, and an AOE is coming out to kill him again, being able to aldo the DPS before the raid damage takes place saves him from dying again.

That is just one example, I can think of a dozen other examples where higher SS would help out with healing.

I don't want to harp on this too much since my goal isn't to gang up on you, but I would just emphasize how extremely miniscule the casting time and GCD reduction benefit is for how much SpS you need to stack and then call attention again to how virtually every encounter in this game is choreographed to an extremely high degree. Besides, the majority of mistakes are either very survivable or very lethal, and casting ~0.1-0.2 seconds faster is probably not going to make the difference in the latter case (if you do react immediately and have a shot at saving the person who screwed up, you're probably going to choose an oGCD tool if you have one up, anyway).

While it's possible to have an oddball situation where that smidge of added SpS makes a positive impact healing-wise, it's exceedingly unlikely. The primary benefit of SpS, as has been discussed in this thread, is for DoT/HoT effects and for chaining hard casts. I don't have a problem with SpS from a DPS perspective, but I maintain that you could strip SCH down to base SpS and be challenged to notice any difference in how you heal, especially if you're anticipating and not healing purely on reaction.

[Ftail]

I don't have a problem with SpS from a DPS perspective...

This "ganging up" thing isn't your fault, it's me being taken out of context by someone else. You aren't the one putting words in my mouth or taking me out of context, you are actually having a conversation with me. While I enjoy our exchanges and I feel you are being sincere without taking advantage of me, which I highly respect you for that. Another person is taking our conversation out of context while tactfully ignoring the points I have made, all the while pretending to have addressed them.

every encounter in this game is choreographed to an extremely high degree.

That's exactly why I think healing is an absolute joke in this game. Because everything is choreographed it makes it an absolute joke to heal, I'll never need that extra crit rating to do my job well. However, I am judged in pugs as to how much DPS I do in savage raids which is my main reason to spec SS.

Until content that is created that actually makes me struggle with healing groups and I'm not spending the majority of my time dealing damage, I'll consider changing my build.

[Sebazy]

Another person is taking our conversation out of context while tactfully ignoring the points I have made, all the while pretending to have addressed them.

Care to clarify this? I'm fairly sure I've addressed your 'SS helps me bubble people quicker' view rather thoroughly.

The main point of the video I linked was to demonstrate that you can pump out heals faster, inherently making SS above "garbage".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCDT4bNLla8

There's 3 inherent issues with this video:

First up, the two right most levels are not attainable anymore due to the rework and changes both Fey Glow/Light and PoM have gone through since this video was made. Whilst Fey Glow/Light's wording was rather misleading and I forget the specifics behind it. PoM was much more clearcut, it multiplied your Spell Speed and thus as the video shows, it responded incredibly well with sufficient gear as any WHM in Dreadwyrm gear could likely attest to. Unfortunately now it reduces your cast time by a percentage and as such, rather than scaling upwards with gear, it actually becomes marginally less effective as you stack more and more SS. As an extreme example, PoM > Raise saves 1.60 seconds with base 364 SS, but 1.47 seconds with 1680 SS. With Cure it's a smaller drop off, 0.40 seconds base, 0.37 seconds with 1680 SS.

Secondly, look a little closer at window three. Over 10% less healing per cast than window two. Not a good trade off.

Last but most certainly not least, whilst the left two views are much more relevant, the third is an unrealistic extreme. After 10 hard casts, 2 ends up about half a cast ahead of 1, it's important to note that it never overtakes it by a complete cast, it would have needed a further 20 seconds to gain that all important extra cast. I cannot think of a single occasion in Savage where I have to turret and cast nothing but heals for 20-40 seconds. As soon as you pause casting to move, switch targets or wait for a mechanic, you're eating into (and usually negating) Spell Speed's value. I'd gain more on the healing side of things by working on making my movement more efficient, targeting quicker or optimising my GCDs so I don't have to wait for a mechanic than I ever will from Spell Speed itself.

It's a fun thing to watch, but it's about as relevant to savage gameplay today as a Fiesta Rally Cross car is to the Auntie's run around.

Let's also not forget, the DPS requirements are rather broad this tier. My first O1S clear had like 15 deaths? A friend's group managed it with 25! O2S gets a little sterner, but it's still highly forgiving with substantial delays between sequences of mechanics, not to mention it's almost entirely devoid of any RNG outside of the tentacle movement. Once you hit O3S and O4S you're going to need clean runs in most pugs to get that kill. If someone doesn't understand the encounter well enough to know when it's safe to raise you're likely going to struggle unless the rest of the group is on the ball.

Consider recording yourself for a few savage runs if you don't already. It's interesting to watch and highly insightful to see lots of little pauses and delays you may not realise you do.

Raw math below for the curious

1680 SS - PoM - No PoM

Cure - 1.47 - 1.84
Raise - 5.90 - 7.37
Medica II 2.21 - 2.76

364 SS - PoM - No PoM

Cure - 1.60 - 2.00
Raise - 2.40 - 3.00
Medica II - 6.40 - 8.00

[Dregenfox]

The argument over SpS people are having is kind of dumb. Why would movement hurt SpS more than anything else? I mean you're not really getting any benefit from Det when you're just waiting either.

The issue with SpS for healing-only is that it's super-binary. Either it lets you get an extra cast off before a mechanic and becomes insanely good, or it isn't enough to get in an extra cast and has no impact.

The people arguing against SpS are throwing out the positive cases, while the people arguing for SpS are throwing out the negative cases. But on average, SpS's impact on combined HPS/DPS is higher than a stat like determination.