Is this what balance looks like?

[Deceptus]

All the DPS are roughly within 10% of each other. That's pretty damned balanced.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

You should not have to play near-flawlessly to be mediocre. You should not have to play flawlessly to stand out. Some classes are still clunky, over-punishing and just not that fun to play right now.
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I feel like this is a massive problem for all the ARR jobs.
I think they focused too much on giving them drawbacks rather than making it fun and fluid to play.

I mean, just look at SAM and RDM vs DRG/Monk and BLM. You're focusing more on upkeeping these extremely punishing buffs rather than simply playing the job and having things flow naturally like with the new SB jobs and most of the HW jobs.

[OmegaStrongtan]

I feel like this is a massive problem for all the ARR jobs.
I think they focused too much on giving them drawbacks rather than making it fun and fluid to play.

I mean, just look at SAM and RDM vs DRG/Monk and BLM. You're focusing more on upkeeping these extremely punishing buffs rather than simply playing the job and having things flow naturally like with the new SB jobs and most of the HW jobs.

This is a good point. Thinking about it: There is at least one thing I absolutely hate for most ARR classes.

[MauvaisOeil]

I agree they seems to have taken on the "let's keep things like they are and just add a few mechanics to matter". But the design of some jobs, especially to me WHM and DRG, is quite obsolete.

[iluvOP]

Its to add some challenge and learning to the game. Thing is, were it any easier and simpler, the game would get boring as heck. Classes need to be designed so that you can have fun even in basic dungeons at later levels. Where you can try to dish out that extra dps, manage stacks and what have you.
If you feel upset about those classes, then don't play them. Thing is, classes will change overtime quite a bit as they should. Should every class be left the same for all eternity, it would stagnate the game. For example I have no interest in SMN right now, but maybe next expansion I'll pick it up again. Focus more on the bigger picture, not so much to the now, to the instant gratification and success.

[MauvaisOeil]

Its to add some challenge and learning to the game. Thing is, were it any easier and simpler, the game would get boring as heck. Classes need to be designed so that you can have fun even in basic dungeons at later levels. Where you can try to dish out that extra dps, manage stacks and what have you.
If you feel upset about those classes, then don't play them. Thing is, classes will change overtime quite a bit as they should. Should every class be left the same for all eternity, it would stagnate the game. For example I have no interest in SMN right now, but maybe next expansion I'll pick it up again. Focus more on the bigger picture, not so much to the now, to the instant gratification and success.

I have to disagree on the fact: Here and today is 2 month into a brand new expansion. If things sucks now, they aren't part of "a future grand scheme" but of 22 month of crappy gameplay.

[OmegaStrongtan]

Its to add some challenge and learning to the game. Thing is, were it any easier and simpler, the game would get boring as heck. Classes need to be designed so that you can have fun even in basic dungeons at later levels. Where you can try to dish out that extra dps, manage stacks and what have you.
If you feel upset about those classes, then don't play them. Thing is, classes will change overtime quite a bit as they should. Should every class be left the same for all eternity, it would stagnate the game. For example I have no interest in SMN right now, but maybe next expansion I'll pick it up again. Focus more on the bigger picture, not so much to the now, to the instant gratification and success.

I don't have much fun in situations where my GL falls off and I have to start at 0 at the next pull.

[Kacho_Nacho]

I'm impressed with the results. Damage-wise, the jobs are balanced.

Now, some of the posters here have said things are not balanced based on the differences between the number of players of the various jobs. I can only answer that different people like different things.

BUT, there is validity to the argument. Machinists and Summoners are both way too underplayed. This points out that there is something about these classes which makes them less popular.

Is it overcomplexity? An unpopular job mechanic? Community bias?

I don't know. I haven't played Summoner much and Machinist is a HW job and I'm not there yet. Yeah, I'm a slacker.

Anyhow, experienced players of these classes will have to lay out their observations before the developers and the rest of the community should support their requests for the fixing of these two jobs. It does no one any good when two jobs sit more or less in the garbage bin. Something must be done to correct this issue.


Something is really out of whack here.

[Eir_Z]

It's probably a combination of flavor of the month for SAM & RDM, a completely reworked and coherent BRD, and a flopped rework for two classes that have very little reward for how complex/punishing they are.

I think it's going to be tough for SE to adjust SMN & MCH enough to attract players in any significant numbers unless they overpower the jobs.

[Wyndam]

I'm impressed with the results. Damage-wise, the jobs are balanced.

Now, some of the posters here have said things are not balanced based on the differences between the number of players of the various jobs. I can only answer that different people like different things.

BUT, there is validity to the argument. Machinists and Summoners are both way too underplayed. This points out that there is something about these classes which makes them less popular.

Is it overcomplexity? An unpopular job mechanic? Community bias?

I don't know. I haven't played Summoner much and Machinist is a HW job and I'm not there yet. Yeah, I'm a slacker.

Anyhow, experienced players of these classes will have to lay out their observations before the developers and the rest of the community should support their requests for the fixing of these two jobs. It does no one any good when two jobs sit more or less in the garbage bin. Something must be done to correct this issue.

Something is really out of whack here.

The impression I get is that for MCH and SMN they're getting hit with everything you mentioned. It's complexity, and unpopular mechanics, and there's a selection bias. And then machinist has the additional disadvantages of having the strictest unlock requirements of any DPS plus I'd wager their aesthetics probably do them more harm than good. Dark Knight and Astrologian don't hurt as much from being behind the Heavensward story requirement because there are fewer tank and healer options. There are many alternatives to Machinist.

In fact you kind of need to look at class representation in separate categories for the different roles. 35k paladin parses makes sense when you consider there are two tank slots per 8 person raid and only 3 options for tanks. 2/3rds of your tank classes are present for every parse. Same with healers. DPS have double the raid slots for triple the classes so they should have less representation for any given class. Meanwhile for DPS there are two runaway success stories with bard and red mage which happen to fill the same party slots as machinist and summoner.

Edit: There was a third paragraph in the middle. The character limit ate it and I can't remember what I said there...