Again the regen thing! Wasn't it gone and done?

[Miste]

Don't range pull for a start. It might look cool but it was no practical use. A tanks job is to tank mobs away from the group not move them closer to the group. Run in with overpower and you'll get hate as soon as you engage them.

Easy.

You didn't read my whole post before replying did you.

*some pulls in dungeons you can run up and facepull overpower and hit them all which is great (IE: first pull in Bardam or Doma), but the mobs are not always clumped enough for all dungeons or every pull for that to be an option.

For giggles here is Qarn Normal first pull. This is the first dungeon healers have regens (besides SCH fairy)



Just a fyi it isn't possible to run in and overpower and hit all the bats. Even if you ran over to the right and overpowered the far right one aimed at the middle one overpower range isn't far enough. I know because just as I took this screenshot I tried to do that. Missed the middle and of course the left one. If I had regen on me when I tried that guess where the other two bats are going?

These mobs wander around so it is possible you might get lucky and zone in and they are clumped up, but I went into Qarn twice and both times they were this spread out. Unless you want the party to sit and wait for the mobs to move into convenient positions then you cannot overpower face pull because you are just going to still miss 2/3 of the mobs same as tomahawk anyway.

[Zfz]

For giggles here is Qarn Normal first pull. This is the first dungeon healers have regens (besides SCH fairy)



Just a fyi it isn't possible to run in and overpower and hit all the bats. Even if you ran over to the right and overpowered the far right one aimed at the middle one overpower range isn't far enough. I know because just as I took this screenshot I tried to do that. Missed the middle and of course the left one. If I had regen on me when I tried that guess where the other two bats are going?

You see, this is what I've been talking about. If you have trouble pulling this pack with regen on you, you need to rethink how you pull and learn to pull properly.

Lob/Tomahawk/Unmend the left-most bat. As soon as you get the skill off, you snap towards the right and go for Flash/Overpower/Unleash. This is where the first thing you need to learn: you don't necessarily have to be heading towards the mobs. If the mobs are so spread out, and you have regen on you, why are you not heading towards your healer instead? You know the last two bats are going to go for your healer, why are you trying to chase them down and complain about your healer instead of going straight for where the bats are going and drop a Flash/Overpower/Unleash?

Now even if you couldn't think flexibly and have used Flash/Overpower/Unmend to catch only the middle bat and missed the third one, you have Provoke, don't you? Provoke and another Lob/Tomahawk/Unmend will get that third bat to you. Problem solved.

Yes, aggro is a shared responsibility, it is a shared responsibility mostly when you cannot shoulder it on your own. And that was in early 2.x when a Flash actually was less enmity than one hard-hitting attack from some DPS jobs. Regen is not one of those situations.

What about Brayflox with one ranged mob and two melee? Do you demand healers to not regen so you can always get to the ranged mob first and only use one Flash/Overpower/Unmend to catch all three? No. You don't do that. You either Lob a melee, Flash the next Melee and pull both to the ranged for another Flash, or you Lob the melee because it's closest, and Flash the ranged, again using the Provoke+Lob on the last ranged that may be heading towards the healer.

There are so many pulls like this, a tank seriously needs to learn that pulling isn't just Flash/Overpower/Unmend. You have tools to handle these pulls, you should use them flexibly. There isn't a combo order to these tools.

And then you can advance to the next stage during chain pulling to actually use your enmity combo to pull the next pack while DPS is still finishing off the last 5% of the last mob from your current pack.

Think flexibly, use the tools flexibly, and you can become a much more effective tank, instead of always having to rely on other team members to create the perfect situation for you to do your job.

[ThunderGodThor]

You see, this is what I've been talking about. If you have trouble pulling this pack with regen on you, you need to rethink how you pull and learn to pull properly.

Lob/Tomahawk/Unmend the left-most bat. As soon as you get the skill off, you snap towards the right and go for Flash/Overpower/Unleash. This is where the first thing you need to learn: you don't necessarily have to be heading towards the mobs. If the mobs are so spread out, and you have regen on you, why are you not heading towards your healer instead? You know the last two bats are going to go for your healer, why are you trying to chase them down and complain about your healer instead of going straight for where the bats are going and drop a Flash/Overpower/Unleash?

Or the healer could delay the regen until after the pull. Seems a lot simpler.

[Jybril]

Or the healer could delay the regen until after the pull. Seems a lot simpler.

Nah, let's piss off the tanks and wonder why there are barely any tanks to spare.
Then tell said tanks "l2tank" then people cry tears as to why it takes half an hour to Q for anything.
Be nice to your tanks, and make their life easier....please.

[Nestama]

Or the healer could delay the regen until after the pull. Seems a lot simpler.

Whaaaat? But then the tank is going to take damage! I can't let that happen ever at all! Even if it means I'll take damage, but that just means the tank is being baaaaad.

[Vaer]

Or the healer could delay the regen until after the pull. Seems a lot simpler.

lol this. Boggles my mind that tanks should have to deal with this and do some geometry nonsense (really only WAR has to deal with this since their overpower needs a target and is cone if no gauge for cyclone) just so the regen can tick for a measly 150 potency per tick and potentially unstabilize a pull.

Yeah there are tanks that can handle it, I don't usually have a problem even if there's medica 2 healing nothing on when I pull (which people in this thread would probably defend, too) but as soon as those mobs run to the healer they might as well have just waited the extra 3 seconds for them to turn red instead now it's a circus and the dps can't even hit them optimally until they are clumped up.

[otarolgam]

Common Sense

Any tank worth their salt knows how to adapt to the "pregen" shit, yes.

But in terms of speeding things up and keeping it all streamlined?

Tanks: Aggro Management > Defensive Buffs > DPS
Healers: Healing > DPS > Aggro Management
DPS: DPS/Offensive Buffs > Aggro Management

Tanks, design-wise, are supposed to be the ones to take care of most of the aggro management. Healers and DPS can help with aggro reduction actions, but it's mostly Tanks doing to work.

If Tanks are constantly getting pregen'd, they're losing time trying to get things in order as they move along, getting all of the mobs under control.

I know it all amounts to a matter of a few seconds, but it's still seconds of precious time that the whole party gets to keep, to start doing something else when the dungeon is finished.

[Snow_Princess]

Or the healer could delay the regen until after the pull. Seems a lot simpler.

This is correct, zfz is not.

The problem is you are assuming how the healer is positioned, and how they run. Simply tell them not to regen for prepull so they do not know NOT to do it when it can cause wipes.

Any tank worth their salt knows how to adapt to the "pregen" shit, yes.

But in terms of speeding things up and keeping it all streamlined?

Tanks: Aggro Management > Defensive Buffs > DPS
Healers: Healing > DPS > Aggro Management
DPS: DPS/Offensive Buffs > Aggro Management

Tanks, design-wise, are supposed to be the ones to take care of most of the aggro management. Healers and DPS can help with aggro reduction actions, but it's mostly Tanks doing to work.

If Tanks are constantly getting pregen'd, they're losing time trying to get things in order as they move along, getting all of the mobs under control.

I know it all amounts to a matter of a few seconds, but it's still seconds of precious time that the whole party gets to keep, to start doing something else when the dungeon is finished.

Yes, tanks can handle it but the thing is it causes too much problems for the flow yes (in some cases can cause wipes, you can't expect all tanks to know. I told tanks to click off regen/meidca from boss kill and they go face pull to wipe us)

[Ilenya]

You see, this is what I've been talking about. If you have trouble pulling this pack with regen on you, you need to rethink how you pull and learn to pull properly.

Just for the record, that picture and commentary were in response to someone saying that you shouldn't use your Tomahawk/Shield Lob/Unmend.

[Miste]

You see, this is what I've been talking about. If you have trouble pulling this pack with regen on you, you need to rethink how you pull and learn to pull properly.

Just for the record, that picture and commentary were in response to someone saying that you shouldn't use your Tomahawk/Shield Lob/Unmend.

^Ilenya clarified this I noticed. Thank you.

If you look at the person I quoted in that post they made a statement saying you should never use ranged attack and you can always facepull and use flash/unleash/overpower and will get hate on everything in one GCD. Obviously since you seem competent at tank you understand that their claim is false too right? You can't just facepull every pull in the game and use one AoE and expect to hit all the mobs. Like I said some pulls the mobs are too spread out.

So I showed them with a screenshot that some pulls the mobs are too far apart to run in and hit them all with one AoE GCD. The whole point of that post and screenshot was only about that....somehow I think you didn't read it since you seem to think I cannot handle the pull, but that wasn't even what I said or what I was talking about.

If you read my posts I am talking about this pregen situation as being "ANNOYING" not that it is impossible to deal with. I can adapt to a healer prepull regening, but I am saying I shouldn't have to and the annoyance factor makes me really hate it.

This isn't about being a good tank. It is physically impossible for a tank to get all the mobs on them in one GCD for some pulls in this game so regen is just going to make mobs run away to the healer because they overhealed before any damage even went out.

It's annoying. It's pointless aggro. It's pointless overheal. You cannot "git gud" on tank to fix this because you will ALWAYS 100% lose hate to prepull regen if the mobs in the pull are too spread out. It is impossible to stop it if the healer casted regen on you just as you pull.

Would you cast Cure I on a tank just as they are pulling even though they are full HP? Sounds pointless right? All it does is just get you hate on the mobs the tank hasn't hit yet due to GCD limitations. Same as using Regen right on pull when you could have waited 3 more seconds until the tank hit all mobs once. If the healer is worried about wasting a GCD they can throw one DoT on the mob the tank hit first.

Do you demand healers to not regen so you can always get to the ranged mob first

I don't want healers prepull regening me in any situation so I have no idea what point you are trying to make here. Wait three seconds and then regen after I have hit all the mobs then suddenly it doesn't matter what mob you pull first. You can tomahawk and group them and overpower then the healer can regen the tank and then you are done. The healer won't get hate and I won't have to waste GCDs trying to aim overpower on mobs that are chasing a healer running around like a chicken because they have hate.

I mean Brayflox is a terrible example to use to defend prepull regen. Why would you even need to prepull regen in a level 34 dungeon...it just reaches a new level of utter pointlessness and useless aggro that serves no purpose except to annoy the tank.

instead of always having to rely on other team members to create the perfect situation for you

Never asked for that; not sure why you think I did. Despite what you obviously think of me I am actually pretty competent on tank even though it isn't my main.

Me understanding that prepull regen is annoying and useless aggro/overheal does not mean I cannot adapt if it happens; so you might want to relax a bit on your assumptions about me being unable to pull properly and unable to adapt and whatever else you have assumed.

It's annoying. It serves little to no purpose except to annoy the tank and make them waste time re-positioning mobs and waste GCDs/TP.

It makes tank not fun to play because you are supposed to keep the mobs off your party. You are supposed to be the pinnacle of enmity, but this one situation where you are 100% powerless to do your job correctly just pisses me off to no end. You cannot fight against prepull regen because it doesn't matter what you do; until your first GCD finishes you have zero control over those two mobs that ran after the healer since they decided to heal you for overheal just as you pulled.