Dropping Grit

[KalinOrthos]

You are a tank.
Grit reduces damage taken, emnity aside.
How is this even a question?

This. Even if you were trying to maximize damage while MTing, I don't think Grit damage is -that- much less less that non-Grit damage. In raw numbers, yes, there is a very clear difference, but your MP regen in Grit is so much higher, which translates to more DA and TBN usage, which in turn means higher damage on Siphon Slash and Souleater, and more DA+Bloodspiller.

Yes, if you're OTing, being out of grit shouldn't even be a question, but as MT, I can't honestly say that I really see any reason to be out of Grit outside of Lakshmi's jump or other similar circumstance.

[Hruodig]

This. Even if you were trying to maximize damage while MTing, I don't think Grit damage is -that- much less less that non-Grit damage. In raw numbers, yes, there is a very clear difference, but your MP regen in Grit is so much higher, which translates to more DA and TBN usage, which in turn means higher damage on Siphon Slash and Souleater, and more DA+Bloodspiller.

Yes, if you're OTing, being out of grit shouldn't even be a question, but as MT, I can't honestly say that I really see any reason to be out of Grit outside of Lakshmi's jump or other similar circumstance.

There is absolutely nothing in lakshmi ex that requires tank stance for mt. I can't really see any reason to *not* be outside grit.

To OP, you should be opening with a dark arts'd power slash. It's much better now than it was in heavensward, and is the best way to pull now to ensure the mt doesn't lose more dps than you need to (outside warrior equilibrium pulling, but should probably just leave that to static situations). If you get an OT that insists on being in tank stance, slap them and tell them to stop. Lakshmi ex aggro shenanigans are best dealt with through intelligent use of provoke and shirk.

[Sarcatica]

This. Even if you were trying to maximize damage while MTing, I don't think Grit damage is -that- much less less that non-Grit damage. In raw numbers, yes, there is a very clear difference, but your MP regen in Grit is so much higher, which translates to more DA and TBN usage, which in turn means higher damage on Siphon Slash and Souleater, and more DA+Bloodspiller.

Yes, if you're OTing, being out of grit shouldn't even be a question, but as MT, I can't honestly say that I really see any reason to be out of Grit outside of Lakshmi's jump or other similar circumstance.

Someone doesn't know how to tank in FFXIV.

[KalinOrthos]

Someone doesn't know how to tank in FFXIV.

I tank just fine, thank you.

[Thoro39]

^Terrible advice. The increased MP from Grit Syphon strike is a moot point, when Bloodweapon gains you so much more MP, Bloodgeneration + Attackspeed while having no Grit penalty.

On dropping Grit, watch how the damage goes. General rule is, if a boss is busy casting mechanics, he wont autoattack you, meaning you're taking little to no damage, which makes your grit migitation useless.
Your Grit migitation is also less relevant in raidaoe phases.
If everyone is taking 10k raidaoe damage and you reduce it to 8k raidaoe damage thanks to tankstance ONLY on yourself on top of having a personal healer-regen, that 2k extra migitation thanks to grit was also useless, as the healers still have to use aoe healing speals that heal for 10k HP for everyone else, which will hit everyone including you, the tank. Resulting into unnecessary Overheal.
And Lakshmi/Susano cast a lot of mechanics and plenty of raid aoe. Also watch out for other relevant downtime.

[aqskerorokero]

1 word：never.

[Elleia]

Also living the pug life, and while I don't tank savage myself I bring a friend that does. It depends on the group comp and whether or not the DPS use their aggro management tools. When we pug savage, we have a group of 3 DPS and one tank - the rest of our party is made up of randoms. At the very least, the 3 of us who play DPS use our aggro management abilities frequently and we've never had a problem. Typically our random DPS is either not good enough to come close to taking aggro or they use their abilities as well.

If anything, we had one O1S group where our friend had to stay in grit the whole fight because the healers were terrible (and he still died to auto attack damage, even with grit on) but that's not the norm. With a NIN he can get away with one powerslash combo before dropping grit; without one, he does a few combos before dropping it. If your issue is with the OT, ask them to shirk you on cooldown if it's not needed for any swaps to help you maintain aggro.

[Chrono_Rising]

The short answer to this is there is no one answer.

Slightly longer answer: in practice I will usually do a few pulls in grit then judge how much stress I'm under to keep hate/be healed. If things seem to be fine I'll ask the healers if they are ok with stance dancing. If we aren't clearing or people need babysitting from the healers then I take the position that it's not my job to optimize my dps, it's my job to make things smooth. However, I don't live the pug life sooo.

[Leximus]

Yea, I understand it being a case by case basis. It's just that in a 100% random setting in every queue, it's quite difficult to gauge and to simply open with 1 combo then drop grit is a leap of faith that I can't bring myself to do. Yet, more often that not, I find myself in such a huge aggro lead while taking almost no damage that I'm handicapping myself and my team on taking a damage penalty. For starters, I always look out for such situations and drop grit immediately. It's those in-between areas that's a pain to deal with.

I'm just asking around for other tanks like me living the PUG life if, maybe, there's a good way to consistently tank without Grit. To be clear, I'm not insisting on dropping grit. I've no problems staying in tank stance forever. My path is to simply optimize my own tanking to be the best I can be in a random setting.

So, let me just ask a few direct question that can help me out after reading all you guys' suggestion.

Assuming that no one in the party made use of their enmity manipulation, staying in tank stance is the most optimal?

What are the signs of party members using their enmity reduction from a tank perspective? Do you just have to know the skill effect and see it on the fly?

Which boss is the easiest to tank without grit? 4 man and 8 man.

Do you take into account your team composite if you can drop grit sooner or later? Not talking about skill here since skill is pretty much universal.

Another point I've just realized myself is that since I've never drop tank stance until I'm confident the DPS can't catch up, the DPS themselves don't have a reason to use their enmity reduction. So good players or not, I guess I have to live the edge(pun intended) and let them catch up?

[Sarcatica]

Yea, I understand it being a case by case basis. It's just that in a 100% random setting in every queue, it's quite difficult to gauge and to simply open with 1 combo then drop grit is a leap of faith that I can't bring myself to do. Yet, more often that not, I find myself in such a huge aggro lead while taking almost no damage that I'm handicapping myself and my team on taking a damage penalty. For starters, I always look out for such situations and drop grit immediately. It's those in-between areas that's a pain to deal with.

I'm just asking around for other tanks like me living the PUG life if, maybe, there's a good way to consistently tank without Grit. To be clear, I'm not insisting on dropping grit. I've no problems staying in tank stance forever. My path is to simply optimize my own tanking to be the best I can be in a random setting.

So, let me just ask a few direct question that can help me out after reading all you guys' suggestion.

Assuming that no one in the party made use of their enmity manipulation, staying in tank stance is the most optimal?

What are the signs of party members using their enmity reduction from a tank perspective? Do you just have to know the skill effect and see it on the fly?

Which boss is the easiest to tank without grit? 4 man and 8 man.

Do you take into account your team composite if you can drop grit sooner or later? Not talking about skill here since skill is pretty much universal.

Another point I've just realized myself is that since I've never drop tank stance until I'm confident the DPS can't catch up, the DPS themselves don't have a reason to use their enmity reduction. So good players or not, I guess I have to live the edge(pun intended) and let them catch up?

1. Like what I mentioned, do a DA's PS combo before going Gritless and you will have to top up enmity less. DAPS is no longer a meme because SE buffed it.

2. Staying in tank stance is fine but really not optimal especially if you are doing any of the bosses, once you are out of Grit it's still better to use PS combo to top up aggro.

3. 4man is the easiest because they really don't hit hard and hardly do tank busters for the most part.

4. There is no dropping Grit later, only how much you have to top up later on without Grit. Unless if you are already almost fully geared, expect to do more enmity combo on bosses.

5. See point 4.

Edit: things will be harder to do as a tank as weeks go by, DPS will reach i340 and rip your aggro much easier and RHS accessories are a joke that crafted accessories are 'BiS'. The gap will mostly come from the STR scaling from accessories.