Dropping Grit

[Chrono_Rising]

The short answer to this is there is no one answer.

Slightly longer answer: in practice I will usually do a few pulls in grit then judge how much stress I'm under to keep hate/be healed. If things seem to be fine I'll ask the healers if they are ok with stance dancing. If we aren't clearing or people need babysitting from the healers then I take the position that it's not my job to optimize my dps, it's my job to make things smooth. However, I don't live the pug life sooo.

[Hruodig]

This. Even if you were trying to maximize damage while MTing, I don't think Grit damage is -that- much less less that non-Grit damage. In raw numbers, yes, there is a very clear difference, but your MP regen in Grit is so much higher, which translates to more DA and TBN usage, which in turn means higher damage on Siphon Slash and Souleater, and more DA+Bloodspiller.

Yes, if you're OTing, being out of grit shouldn't even be a question, but as MT, I can't honestly say that I really see any reason to be out of Grit outside of Lakshmi's jump or other similar circumstance.

There is absolutely nothing in lakshmi ex that requires tank stance for mt. I can't really see any reason to *not* be outside grit.

To OP, you should be opening with a dark arts'd power slash. It's much better now than it was in heavensward, and is the best way to pull now to ensure the mt doesn't lose more dps than you need to (outside warrior equilibrium pulling, but should probably just leave that to static situations). If you get an OT that insists on being in tank stance, slap them and tell them to stop. Lakshmi ex aggro shenanigans are best dealt with through intelligent use of provoke and shirk.

[Leximus]

Yea, I understand it being a case by case basis. It's just that in a 100% random setting in every queue, it's quite difficult to gauge and to simply open with 1 combo then drop grit is a leap of faith that I can't bring myself to do. Yet, more often that not, I find myself in such a huge aggro lead while taking almost no damage that I'm handicapping myself and my team on taking a damage penalty. For starters, I always look out for such situations and drop grit immediately. It's those in-between areas that's a pain to deal with.

I'm just asking around for other tanks like me living the PUG life if, maybe, there's a good way to consistently tank without Grit. To be clear, I'm not insisting on dropping grit. I've no problems staying in tank stance forever. My path is to simply optimize my own tanking to be the best I can be in a random setting.

So, let me just ask a few direct question that can help me out after reading all you guys' suggestion.

Assuming that no one in the party made use of their enmity manipulation, staying in tank stance is the most optimal?

What are the signs of party members using their enmity reduction from a tank perspective? Do you just have to know the skill effect and see it on the fly?

Which boss is the easiest to tank without grit? 4 man and 8 man.

Do you take into account your team composite if you can drop grit sooner or later? Not talking about skill here since skill is pretty much universal.

Another point I've just realized myself is that since I've never drop tank stance until I'm confident the DPS can't catch up, the DPS themselves don't have a reason to use their enmity reduction. So good players or not, I guess I have to live the edge(pun intended) and let them catch up?

[Sarcatica]

This. Even if you were trying to maximize damage while MTing, I don't think Grit damage is -that- much less less that non-Grit damage. In raw numbers, yes, there is a very clear difference, but your MP regen in Grit is so much higher, which translates to more DA and TBN usage, which in turn means higher damage on Siphon Slash and Souleater, and more DA+Bloodspiller.

Yes, if you're OTing, being out of grit shouldn't even be a question, but as MT, I can't honestly say that I really see any reason to be out of Grit outside of Lakshmi's jump or other similar circumstance.

Someone doesn't know how to tank in FFXIV.

[Sarcatica]

Yea, I understand it being a case by case basis. It's just that in a 100% random setting in every queue, it's quite difficult to gauge and to simply open with 1 combo then drop grit is a leap of faith that I can't bring myself to do. Yet, more often that not, I find myself in such a huge aggro lead while taking almost no damage that I'm handicapping myself and my team on taking a damage penalty. For starters, I always look out for such situations and drop grit immediately. It's those in-between areas that's a pain to deal with.

I'm just asking around for other tanks like me living the PUG life if, maybe, there's a good way to consistently tank without Grit. To be clear, I'm not insisting on dropping grit. I've no problems staying in tank stance forever. My path is to simply optimize my own tanking to be the best I can be in a random setting.

So, let me just ask a few direct question that can help me out after reading all you guys' suggestion.

Assuming that no one in the party made use of their enmity manipulation, staying in tank stance is the most optimal?

What are the signs of party members using their enmity reduction from a tank perspective? Do you just have to know the skill effect and see it on the fly?

Which boss is the easiest to tank without grit? 4 man and 8 man.

Do you take into account your team composite if you can drop grit sooner or later? Not talking about skill here since skill is pretty much universal.

Another point I've just realized myself is that since I've never drop tank stance until I'm confident the DPS can't catch up, the DPS themselves don't have a reason to use their enmity reduction. So good players or not, I guess I have to live the edge(pun intended) and let them catch up?

1. Like what I mentioned, do a DA's PS combo before going Gritless and you will have to top up enmity less. DAPS is no longer a meme because SE buffed it.

2. Staying in tank stance is fine but really not optimal especially if you are doing any of the bosses, once you are out of Grit it's still better to use PS combo to top up aggro.

3. 4man is the easiest because they really don't hit hard and hardly do tank busters for the most part.

4. There is no dropping Grit later, only how much you have to top up later on without Grit. Unless if you are already almost fully geared, expect to do more enmity combo on bosses.

5. See point 4.

Edit: things will be harder to do as a tank as weeks go by, DPS will reach i340 and rip your aggro much easier and RHS accessories are a joke that crafted accessories are 'BiS'. The gap will mostly come from the STR scaling from accessories.

[KalinOrthos]

Someone doesn't know how to tank in FFXIV.

I tank just fine, thank you.

[Canadane]

Am OT that stays in tank stance is just a badly performing MT.

[Leximus]

1. Like what I mentioned, do a DA's PS combo before going Gritless and you will have to top up enmity less. DAPS is no longer a meme because SE buffed it.

2. Staying in tank stance is fine but really not optimal especially if you are doing any of the bosses, once you are out of Grit it's still better to use PS combo to top up aggro.

3. 4man is the easiest because they really don't hit hard and hardly do tank busters for the most part.

4. There is no dropping Grit later, only how much you have to top up later on without Grit. Unless if you are already almost fully geared, expect to do more enmity combo on bosses.

5. See point 4.

Edit: things will be harder to do as a tank as weeks go by, DPS will reach i340 and rip your aggro much easier and RHS accessories are a joke that crafted accessories are 'BiS'. The gap will mostly come from the STR scaling from accessories.

I see, so you do top up using PS. This is something I've never done. I always watch statics do their runs and they never touch PS after the opener, going full dps. I somehow tried to translate that into pug settings, forgetting the most basic solution. Just do enmity combo to gain back. lol

I'm going to test using 1 DAPS opener.

[Chrono_Rising]

I find that you can get away with 1 DAPS if you have a ninja funnel you hate or an OT who will shirk you.

[Capn_Goggles]

For the most part, you should drop grit when you have a healthy enmity lead or are playing with people who use their enmity reducing abilities. In dungeons this is a bit touch and go since tank stance is pretty useful on trash pulls, but when facing a boss and enmity is established it's usually safe to just drop it right off the bat. Use TBN to eat the larger hits, and pop your cooldowns intermittently to minimize fluff damage.

The people who insist on staying in tank stance don't know enough about tanking to actually have relevant advice on the matter.