I feel like raiding is pointless in this game

[Dark-Saviour]

Could of had a Super Savage raid under a different encounter. Not Omege the III.
Just my 2cents.

AFAIK, Super Savage isn't Omega.
It's something different, though we're not sure what.

[JunseiKei]

~snip~

I have to ask: Did you raid in previous games? I'm a complete stranger to WoW, but other game raids are just moves scripted to be used randomly with tells. There's no true random, either, because true random is nearly impossible (or rather, takes THAT much work to make it possible that no one wants to devote the time and effort to make that system in their game). Other than that, other game raids I've heard of or seen were more endurance tests than anything else.

Also, for as much as people complain about scripted fights, saying they are easy: congrats. You are able to spit out a pattern when asked. What these people often fail to understand is there are lots of people out there that, even if they have knowledge of a pattern, performing the pattern is an entirely different story.

*Points at schools- given notes, then asked to spit it back out in the form of tests/finals.*

[loreleidiangelo]

Also, for as much as people complain about scripted fights, saying they are easy: congrats. You are able to spit out a pattern when asked. What these people often fail to understand is there are lots of people out there that, even if they have knowledge of a pattern, performing the pattern is an entirely different story.

*Points at schools- given notes, then asked to spit it back out in the form of tests/finals.*

A bit off-topic, but IMO the immense focus on schools re: regurgitating memorized information without dissemination is part of the reason the education system in this country (U.S.) is going down the tubes. Pattern recognition in raids is symptomatic of that, to tie it back in to the original subject - inability to think critically in the moment is a big reason why raids wipe when something deviates from the pre-planned encounter design.

It's a bit disingenuous BTW to claim that "all raids are scripted because the bosses have a preset list of abilities they use". Of course they do, they'd be a nightmare to complete if they didn't. But imagine if 4x D.Wave could happen ANY time in O3S instead of at the exact same point every time with the Iron Giant and the ninjas? There'd certainly be a bit more focus required on the part of healers to get groups topped off or shielded after a previous raidwide AOE. Or if Halicarnassus could change The Game to be a combination of one frog, one pig, two healer and two DPS tiles or any other pattern that she chose? You'd have to have an inherent understanding of what is required from the mechanic to be able to pass that instance - one tank or DPS would need to take frog, one tank or DPS would need to take pig, and no one would get imp, respectively. Imagine if Mindjack could lead into Folio instead of ALWAYS leading to some variation of tethers?

/shrug I mean, in the end, it all boils down to preference, but I think that a more randomized encounter design leads to a higher element of focus required. Some might call it arbitrary difficulty, but I'd prefer that over mundane pattern recognition where one rube can bark orders in voice chat and the encounter always works so long as everyone falls in line.

[JunseiKei]

A bit off-topic, but IMO the immense focus on schools re: regurgitating memorized information without dissemination is part of the reason the education system in this country (U.S.) is going down the tubes. Pattern recognition in raids is symptomatic of that, to tie it back in to the original subject - inability to think critically in the moment is a big reason why raids wipe when something deviates from the pre-planned encounter design.

It's a bit disingenuous BTW to claim that "all raids are scripted because the bosses have a preset list of abilities they use". Of course they do, they'd be a nightmare to complete if they didn't. But imagine if 4x D.Wave could happen ANY time in O3S instead of at the exact same point every time with the Iron Giant and the ninjas? There'd certainly be a bit more focus required on the part of healers to get groups topped off or shielded after a previous raidwide AOE. Or if Halicarnassus could change The Game to be a combination of one frog, one pig, two healer and two DPS tiles or any other pattern that she chose? You'd have to have an inherent understanding of what is required from the mechanic to be able to pass that instance - one tank or DPS would need to take frog, one tank or DPS would need to take pig, and no one would get imp, respectively. Imagine if Mindjack could lead into Folio instead of ALWAYS leading to some variation of tethers?

/shrug I mean, in the end, it all boils down to preference, but I think that a more randomized encounter design leads to a higher element of focus required. Some might call it arbitrary difficulty, but I'd prefer that over mundane pattern recognition where one rube can bark orders in voice chat and the encounter always works so long as everyone falls in line.

I was not speaking of FFXIV when I made that comment and speaking of other games in general, so I'm not being deceitful. Games that have scripted movesets and not scripted fights (I'm actually splitting hairs on this). I may have worded that incorrectly to give the impression I was speaking of FFXIV. Apparently. That being said, if FFXIV adopted scripted movesets instead of scripted fight, the moves would probably become more linear or have movesets the boss can only pull from while in certain phases with only x many times they could use it (because tank cooldowns are a thing and could lead to a guaranteed tank death otherwise). Again, some games that have raids do not have skill cooldowns like FFXIV, so they can afford to be "random." (Pulling off of games I have played, so my scope is limited.)

[BubblyBoar]

I mean, you say that fights are too scripted, and thus boring, but then you say you enjoyed Titan EX and is one of your favorites. Titan EX is just as scripted as everything else....

[Mraj]

In addition to ( or in place of ) a "Super Savage Fight" I'd rather have a chance to flex the raid gear in something *besides* a raid. Take PoTD at 200 floors - lot of fun at launch, but also with a big risk factor. What if something existed like that for raiders. Make more floors accessible with each raid tier you beat. Or fuse ( the good ) diadem concepts with PotD. Add profitable items or even throw in some RNG randomly stat armor ( to avoid outcry, don't let it be max gear, but rather placeholders for those that perhaps didn't get actual savage drops that week - iLVL 335?). Throw in minions and new glamour sets. Make people want to raid to get to this new content. Make it rewarding in terms of gil and items.

If SE had to, could also make "lite" version of this gameplay content for non-raiders with lesser ( or less common ) rewards. Give players a taste and let them choose whether they want to raid to see more. Eureka is on the way, but with no knowledge of the content and with the dev team's track record ( gods, they made diadem -worse- ) I'm not pinning my hopes on it as a panacea.

In any case, I'd like there to be something of the sort at the end of the raider rainbow. The game needs goal-driven content rather than the constant knowledge in the back of every player's head that they don't need to do anything besides weekly cap - and not even that really.

I'm sure more players would prefer an alternative to their usual "raidlogging" ( or tomelogging? )

[Brannigan]

I'd rather have a chance to flex the raid gear in something *besides* a raid.

Yeah this is a big problem with the game. Since Heavensward, they've been making raid gear worthless. There's currently a weird problem in the game

-Raid gear drops
-Raid gear has materia slots
-Gearing up and adding materia to those slots doesn't actually help you beat anything new if you've cleared the raid because
-That raid gear gets thrown out when they add new crafted gear, which is for some reason higher item level than the previous raid (while of course being far easier to obtain)

So you do the raid and clear it. Now, what reason do you have to actually keep running it? The gear doesn't let you do anything besides speed run the content you got it from. You don't need to farm it to "get ready" for the next raid since, and this is a big one, farming the raid and adding materia to the gear that drops actually makes you LESS prepared for the following raid patch because it drains your consumables, gil, and time that could be better spent farming both.

In 2.x you could actually use First Coil gear to clear Second Coil. You could use Second Coil gear to clear Final Coil. That wasn't the case with HW because the crafted upgrades were extremely easy to obtain and had an ilvl advantage. At the very least, the next tier of crafted gear should only be the same ilvl as Genji gear and should be harder/more expensive to make.

[Syfurion]

-crafting shenanigans-

I would agree with this, I don't understand why crafted gear is equal to or better than current dropped gear. Even at equal Ilvl like it was before Creation gear dropped, it was better due to the speed you could obtain it, and the ability to penta-meld it, if you were willing. In my opinion, crafted gear should never be equal to, and certainly not better than, whatever is currently available from raids and/or tomestones. It should be useful to catch up if you've been away, gear up alt jobs, and fill gaps in your gearing til you get something better to drop.

[RitsukoSonoda]

Random thought on the PoTD style combat for raiders...

For some reason that tower in ruby sea comes to mind that goes up into heaven. Imagine that as a raid level multi-floor challenge to see how high you can climb before wiping and every time new gear comes out increasing in ilvl you'd be able to climb a little higher?

[TankHunter678]

You could just make a boss rush with no rest time.

You take out Alte Roite and catastrophe jumps in already aggro'd on the main tank and pulling the tower down into the pit, when Catastrophe goes down its followed by the V3 boss changing the game board and moving right into the fight, then Exdeath busts in and the battlefield changes again. If you wipe then you go all the way back to the beginning.