Did you know not performing as you think another player should in a group

[HyoMinPark]

And no those things are not intentional in most cases. You yourself said some players do it intentionaly . Then you contradict yourself by saying its always intentional. And the fact of the matter is many people disagree with everything you said...myself included. You place the game in front of the people on the other side of the screen. I will continue to be polite and courteous to those people and if a dungeon run doesn't go so great. Oh well I don't really care. Its a game . Not the end of the world. I'll go back and try it again.

So you're telling me that a BLM spamming a singular spell is not doing so intentionally? Is not intentionally playing their job in an a. suboptimal manner, and b. a way that is just completely wrong? What about a tank not using cooldowns? Or a healer not using HoTs, shields, or other party buffs? Yeah, I don't buy it. Very few people who play suboptimally don't realize that they are playing suboptimally, and normally you encounter them in the very first couple of dungeons, not in a level 70 expert roulette dungeon.

Being courteous is a lot more than just saying hello or making polite conversation. It is also working with your team to try and make a run go as smooth as possible. Intentional bad play is not being a team player, and is not polite or courteous to the other members in your group in any way. It doesn't matter how you try to spin it.

And if this is "just a game" and "not the end of the world," why did you create what is basically a vent thread to lament getting Vote Dismissed for not meeting the expectation of your other party members?

Duty Finder is NOT just there for new individuals to find groups for content. It is also there for veterans to use and run content. The time and playstyle of one group does not trump the time and playstyle of another. All members of a party need to cooperate with one another. A player intentionally underperforming and refusing to listen to advice and improve is not good team play.

[HyoMinPark]

You certainly seem the opposite of this thing you said in your profile.
"I love this game, and I love the people I have met through it. I would not trade them for the world. "
Its all about the game to you it seems..Not the people who play the game.

Personal attacks certainly don't help to get your point of polite and courteous treatment of others across.

My profile quote is in reference to my friends that I have made in this game that I speak to on a daily basis that have helped me through difficult times in my life during the almost two years I have played. Not randoms in Duty Finder, although some are very memorable and wonderful people I hope to get matched up with again someday. But, thank you for taking my profile quote completely and totally out of context.


But you are right: we aren't accomplishing anything. If you are fine with subpar play and people intentionally playing their roles inadequately, then you do you. A lot of us prefer playing with individuals open to advice on how to improve, and not just playing badly because "my sub and I can play how I want."

Have a wonderful evening.

[ArcanoJones]

Personal attacks certainly don't help to get your point of polite and courteous treatment of others across. But you are right: we aren't accomplishing anything. If you are fine with subpar play and people intentionally playing their roles inadequately, then you do you. A lot of us prefer playing with individuals open to advice on how to improve, and not just playing badly because "my sub and I can play how I want."

Have a wonderful evening.

Sorry if its seems like a personal attack I apoligiize. Maybe it was to harsh. But you guys are all attacking me for saying I am not going to kick somebody just because they are not performing with perfect efficiency. If the group is not wiping and completing the dungeon then its not even an issue regardless of what they are doing. You guys seem to be saying that if they are making the dungeon run any longer than it needs to be there going to get kicked. That shows the game is more important that the person to me. I just pointed it out to you is all. Nothing personal.

[magnanimousCynic]

just because they are not performing with perfect efficiency.

Who's asking for perfection? Expecting perfection for Expert Roulette, or anything outside of Savage for that matter, is completely unrealistic.

We're asking for PASSABLE knowledge of your class and the proper rotations, not spamming your weakest move or using a GCD once every 5 seconds. I don't expect savage raiders in my Expert Roulette, I expect people to not use their single target rotation on large dungeon pulls. I expect people to know that standing in AoEs is bad 99% of the time. I expect people to press a DPS cooldown at least once a dungeon. I expect people to know the most essential mechanics of a boss fight that can cause wipes or deaths. I expect people to use current level gear (AF3 + level 67-70 Accessories) and not level 50 or 60 equipment.

I'll do an example for RDM, a Job many consider the easiest DPS to play:

Passable RDM:

• Tries to avoid wasting GCDs by casting spells as often as possible, mechanics permitting.

• Tries to avoid hardcasting VerThunder or VerAero.

• Tries to avoid using Dualcast on Jolt I/II, Impact, and VerFire/VerStone.

• Uses Scatter for big pulls.

• Only uses Melee combo when it is Enchanted.

Underperforming RDM:

• Has frequent downtime between GCDs.

• Hardcasts VerThunder or VerAero often.

• Uses Dualcast on Jolt I/II, Impact, and VerFire/VerStone often.

• Uses Scatter for single target or not used for big pulls.

• Often uses Melee Combo without the White and Black Mana needed for the Enchanted version.

• Uses Tether /s

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Sorry if its seems like a personal attack I apoligiize. Maybe it was to harsh. But you guys are all attacking me for saying I am not going to kick somebody just because they are not performing with perfect efficiency. If the group is not wiping and completing the dungeon then its not even an issue regardless of what they are doing. You guys seem to be saying that if they are making the dungeon run any longer than it needs to be there going to get kicked. That shows the game is more important that the person to me. I just pointed it out to you is all. Nothing personal.

No one is attacking you, we simply disagree with your stance. For example sake, if I queue into a dungeon and notice the DPS aren't aoeing, I'll tell them they should as it deals high overall damage during larger pulls. If they refuse, I will kick them. Why? They are now intentionally doing something they were just told isn't as efficient. Why should their preferred playstyle supersede mine? If the Vote Kick goes through, majority ruled. You don't have to like it, but I don't like players who slow dungeons to a crawl.

[Gallus]

And what happens if that player is just learning the class and isn't very familiar with their single target rotations, let alone their aoe?

[magnanimousCynic]

And what happens if that player is just learning the class and isn't very familiar with their single target rotations, let alone their aoe?

The deciding factor is the level of the player. Are we in Tam-Tara NM or Kugane Castle? Because the previous people and I were talking about bad players in Expert Roulette. If they aren't familiar with their class by 70 then they should look stuff up.

If you're talking about a player in a low level duty then of course it's ok as they are still new and (hopefully) open to learning. And when I'm in that type of low level duty I'll try my best to give advice if I see that they could use it.

[HyoMinPark]

Sorry if its seems like a personal attack I apoligiize. Maybe it was to harsh. But you guys are all attacking me for saying I am not going to kick somebody just because they are not performing with perfect efficiency. If the group is not wiping and completing the dungeon then its not even an issue regardless of what they are doing. You guys seem to be saying that if they are making the dungeon run any longer than it needs to be there going to get kicked. That shows the game is more important that the person to me. I just pointed it out to you is all. Nothing personal.

I am not attacking you for having a different playstyle with regards to myself, nor did I inherently assume that you considered the players in this game as nothing more than mere NPCs and not actual people. Merely I am disagreeing with you on the basis that I do not want to carry underperforming players in higher level content (note: I am not speaking about new players in low-level dungeons still learning, but players in later content that should be very well aware of the bare basics of their job and rotation), and what I consider respectful and courteous play. I disagreed with you on your opinion regarding the Thunder Mage frequently brought up in the course of this discussion, and I also disagreed with you that the time of one player is more important than the time of the entire party. Duties are a team effort in this game, and the entire team needs to be taken into consideration, not just the time and playstyle of one individual, underperforming or overperforming.

My discussion about the current state of the Vote Dismiss feature was more of a tangent discussion, and in no way was meant as a personal attack against you nor any of the posters I was debating with. Rather, it was a discussion, which is the purpose of a forum. I do not devolve into personal attacks against posters to try and get my points across, which is what I felt like you did to me in your point to try and say that people should respect others. I have a general amount of respect for any and all people I group with. However, the minute I try to genuinely help a player and they brush off my advice with a "I don't care" or "it's my sub, I play how I want", and clearly do not care that they are a hindrance to the group, that is when they lose my respect. If someone is not going to show the rest of a party a basic amount of respect, they do not deserve the same courtesy in return. Respect is something that is earned.