Did you know not performing as you think another player should in a group

[MicahZerrshia]

None of that is intentional. Its called the way they play.

If you are just a thunder or blizzard mage, you are not trying to play well, you are intentionally playing poorly.
If you are not playing optimally when you can, if you know you are not doing your job but don't care enough to try, you are intentionally playing poorly.
If you do not take the time to learn your job or even reading the tool tips on your icons you are intentionally playing poorly.
If you are intentionally playing your job a certain way because that is your preference when you know there are better ways to go about things, you are intentionally playing poorly.
Especially at level 70. If you still do not know your basic rotations you have put 0 effort into learning anything and therefore you are intentionally playing poorly. Ignorance by choice.

Funny, this all sound pretty intentional to me.

But if you want to make excuses to be carried I guess they are hard to argue against and best to just ignore instead of making a valid argument outside of "meany"

[HyoMinPark]

Micah...Why exactly would that be rude..That is not valid at all. If you are trying there is absolutely nothing rude about it. If your not intentionally trying to harrass or troll somebody there is nothing rude about it. Nobody is purposely trying to play there class badly. Not everybody is a perfect player. Would you like to explain why that is rude if your not intentionaly trying to effect another person. I am interested on why some people say that.

The more you play this game, the more you will realize that there are players just like that in this game: that intentionally play their job suboptimally, and don't care if it causes the run to last longer, or places undue burden or strain on the party. Because "you don't pay my sub, and it's my sub so I'll play the way I want to play."

And like I say..People who think your way are not very nice people. Sorry but thats how I feel. its a selfish attitude. Its a if you don't play the game my way your out of here attitude. Some will bash me for saying it. But I know others feel the same.

Yet, in this thread, you are basically advocating for people to play this game the way you think it should be played: slow, easy dungeon runs with lots of talking and chatting. And while that may be ideal for some, it is not what everyone in this community wants. Some people are fine with just "Hello" and "Thank you" after a fast, efficient run. Brief interactions; short, to-the-point explanations of boss mechanics for anyone who asks for them; those are all things that are done in runs and acceptable in this community. Playing a job inefficiently and being a burden to your party is not. That is what I would consider selfish behavior.

The only reason I am going to kick somebody is if they are harrasing another player..bullying them or being mean to them ..or if they have left the game obviously and are AFK for a long time. That is the only time you will get a kick vote from me. Advancing in the game and doing things effficiently is not more important than being courteous and polite and treating others as you would like them to treat you.

I would consider people unwilling to play their jobs to the most basic expectations and thereby hindering progression or making a run last far longer than it should rude, and not treating their fellow party members with any ounce of respect or consideration. Your time and your enjoyment are not more important than the time and enjoyment of your party.

None of that is intentional. Its called the way they play. You have not got the slightest idea what other people know about the game. You can only speak for yourself. Thats just an excuse your making But you sure take a lot for granted on what everybody knows.

Everything Micah pointed out is intentional play. It is highly unlikely that you would ever meet, for example, a BLM that actually though spamming Blizzard was an optimal rotation. The thaumaturge questline explains to you the balance of Astral and Umbral with regards to your rotation, and how important it is to rotate between the two.

Likewise, very obviously not bothering to read your own tooltips is just poor practice and poor play.

Barring all of this, why one would willingly choose to play poorly boggles my mind, and they are not someone I would ever want to be grouped with. I don't expect 95th percentile FFLogs parses out of my party members for any sort of content (this is including Savage, since a lot of 90th percentile and above parses are catered and padded), but I do expect all of them to have the most basic understanding of their job, and to give content at least some shred of effort.

[Jybril]

We're going around in circles with him.
I say let him make a PF and let him allow people to
play Thunder/Ice Mage. Stone/Wind Mage or whatever. Do it, and see how much
of a boring crawl it is not utilizing your job to the fullest potential because one person wants
to be one of the above. Don't hinder the rest of us for it.
Please don't come into DF pretending to be silly made up jobs.

I said it earlier in this topic - This is NOT the game that has a choose your path traits.
Nothing to do with "Players aren't perfect"
You're free to do as you wish in this game, but doing that crap in DF will net you a kick.
A lot of people are on a time budget and I don't have time for people being silly like that.
I'm sorry I don't though.

[ArcanoJones]

And no those things are not intentional in most cases. You yourself said some players do it intentionaly . Then you contradict yourself by saying its always intentional. And the fact of the matter is many people disagree with everything you said...myself included. You place the game in front of the people on the other side of the screen. I will continue to be polite and courteous to those people and if a dungeon run doesn't go so great. Oh well I don't really care. Its a game . Not the end of the world. I'll go back and try it again.

[ArcanoJones]

Fact is Jybril I am not talking about that specific example..And I play my job just fine. Just because I don't believe in kicking people out of groups for anything but harrasment or AFK does not mean I don't know how to play the game.

[akaneakki]

If a player doesnt want to improve and spam freeze after flare all the time, then yes they play it the way they want. Their intention is to play bad. There is a difference people wanting to improve over not wanting. If you dont wanna improve you play with like minded people.

[Alistaire]

Because they told me...on the chat...when I joined back. And even there, the GM only told me "Different playstyles, dude" (Well, not that words precisely )

Makes me glad they got rid of the ability for people to rejoin like that.

[ArcanoJones]

Jybil don't you know that the duty finder is there so that NEW players can get groups to go through the MSQ dungeons. But you specifically said not to come into the DF doing that or you will get kicked.

[HyoMinPark]

And no those things are not intentional in most cases. You yourself said some players do it intentionaly . Then you contradict yourself by saying its always intentional. And the fact of the matter is many people disagree with everything you said...myself included. You place the game in front of the people on the other side of the screen. I will continue to be polite and courteous to those people and if a dungeon run doesn't go so great. Oh well I don't really care. Its a game . Not the end of the world. I'll go back and try it again.

So you're telling me that a BLM spamming a singular spell is not doing so intentionally? Is not intentionally playing their job in an a. suboptimal manner, and b. a way that is just completely wrong? What about a tank not using cooldowns? Or a healer not using HoTs, shields, or other party buffs? Yeah, I don't buy it. Very few people who play suboptimally don't realize that they are playing suboptimally, and normally you encounter them in the very first couple of dungeons, not in a level 70 expert roulette dungeon.

Being courteous is a lot more than just saying hello or making polite conversation. It is also working with your team to try and make a run go as smooth as possible. Intentional bad play is not being a team player, and is not polite or courteous to the other members in your group in any way. It doesn't matter how you try to spin it.

And if this is "just a game" and "not the end of the world," why did you create what is basically a vent thread to lament getting Vote Dismissed for not meeting the expectation of your other party members?

Duty Finder is NOT just there for new individuals to find groups for content. It is also there for veterans to use and run content. The time and playstyle of one group does not trump the time and playstyle of another. All members of a party need to cooperate with one another. A player intentionally underperforming and refusing to listen to advice and improve is not good team play.

[magnanimousCynic]

snip

So when does a player stop being "new" to you; 50? 60? 70? Full Verity? EX Primal gear?

It's extremely obvious that Micah, Jybril, and others are talking about EXPERT roulette, which has level 70 dungeons that are the most recent content, content that you currently don't have access to. Do you honestly think a new person can just walk in there, going through the 69 previous levels, 40 MSQ required 4-man and 8-man duties, ~600 Main Story Quests (maybe some duplicates due to the starting levels), and STILL think that said player in end-game content isn't at fault for not knowing how to play their job at a passable level?

This is hopeless.