Did you know not performing as you think another player should in a group

[Reynhart]

Since you can't vote for or against your own dismissal it's actually 2/3 or 4/7. Not 50%

Your voice is just an automatic "no". Like the one initiating the kick is an automatic "yes". You can't call it democratic is you prevent one person from "voicing" his/her opinion.

[HyoMinPark]

Your voice is just an automatic "no". Like the one initiating the kick is an automatic "yes". You can't call it democratic is you prevent one person from "voicing" his/her opinion.

Considering parties are either 4 people or 8 people, if you were to be given an option regarding your own dismissal, most people are going to, of course, vote "No! I don't want to be dismissed!" Considering this, your "automatic no" rather than be given an option/"counting vote" is to prevent stalemates--which would ultimately render the vote dismiss feature worthless in a lot of 4-man settings if one other person (aside from yourself) voted no. The person who initiates the kick is going to be voted as a "yes" by any and all logical stand points: they want you dismissed, so it makes sense that their vote is a yes, and it makes sense that it is considered. Thus, the 2/3 and 4/7 votes primarily considered is still "majority rules."

If the devs were to do as you suggest by not counting the vote of the kick initiator and the chosen to be dismissed (going off of your plaintiff/defendant example above), parties would have to consist of an odd number of participants in order to prevent stalemates and ties when doing vote dismisses. And since that seems unlikely, the current system is, more or less, working as intended.

[Reynhart]

Considering this, your "automatic no" rather than be given an option/"counting vote" is to prevent stalemates

If someone is obviously, undoubtedly a jerk or a troll, it won't be that difficult to gather 3/4 or 5/8 "no".
The votekick system is abused precisely because stalemate is that easy to avoid.

[HyoMinPark]

If someone is obviously, undoubtedly a jerk or a troll, it won't be that difficult to gather 3/4 or 5/8 "no".
The votekick system is abused precisely because stalemate is that easy to avoid.

And if you were to not count the initiator and the individual up to be kicked, then kicks could be avoided altogether by pairing up with a friend. The same way that the kick system can be abused in terms of successfully kicking someone, and the same way that avoiding kicks is circumvented now. The potential for "abuse" goes both ways; not just one. Hence why SE would have to adjust the number of members in a Light and Full Party. Something that seems unlikely given how Light Parties have always been 4 players, and Full Parties 8, and SE seems fully set in their ways with regards to how party formation is in FFXIV. So the Vote Dismiss feature is working as intended with 2/3 and 4/7.

Like another poster said: if an individual is getting kicked several times in such a short period, it's highly unlikely that people are "abusing" the system; more than likely, the person being kicked is the problem. I'm sure that abuse does occur, but I doubt it occurs at the frequency that a lot of people who cry "vote kick abuse!" claim that it does.

[Reynhart]

And if you were to not count the initiator and the individual up to be kicked, then kicks could be avoided altogether by pairing up with a friend.

Yes, so ? You'll pair with a friend and troll the other two people ? For what ? Last time I checked, if you tag for an instance and just good around, you'll waste both your and your friend's time.
And if you can't kick everyone on a whim, maybe, just maybe, people will actually try to behave a little better if they don't want to waste their own time.

[missybee]

And if you can't kick everyone on a whim, maybe, just maybe, people will actually try to behave a little better if they don't want to waste their own time.

Who is going around kicking people on a whim?

Have you been subject to so many vote kicks that you see it as something rampantly abused?

There are going to be people who will occasionally get kicked unfairly, and that sucks. For the most part, however, the system is passable. Most people don't abuse it, and when it isn't abused, it is fair enough.

[HyoMinPark]

Yes, so ? You'll pair with a friend and troll the other two people ? For what ? Last time I checked, if you tag for an instance and just good around, you'll waste both your and your friend's time.
And if you can't kick everyone on a whim, maybe, just maybe, people will actually try to behave a little better if they don't want to waste their own time.

You're missing my point. If SE were to stop counting the votes of the kicker and the kickee, the only way to have a successful Vote Dismiss would be a unanimous decision between the 2 other members of a 4-man party (4 for an 8-man party, something "easier" [for lack of a better word] to obtain in a Full Party), thereby increasing the chances of stalemates and rendering the Vote Dismiss system in 4-mans basically useless. They can't have it one way for 4-mans and another way for 8-mans, hence 2/3 and 4/7 = majority rules in a Vote Dismiss.

The system is working as intended in its current design.

[Alistaire]

If someone is obviously, undoubtedly a jerk or a troll, it won't be that difficult to gather 2/4 or 4/8 "no".

fixed that for ya

[Reynhart]

Have you been subject to so many vote kicks that you see it as something rampantly abused?

Considering the justifiable reasons listed on the kick page, most kicks are abusive. Most of the time, you'll do your thing, no one will say anything, and bam, you're out.

thereby increasing the chances of stalemates and rendering the Vote Dismiss system in 4-mans basically useless.

No, vote kicks would be performed for real bad reasons, crippling the whole party, and not just one person that disagrees with another. If you tag with a friend and his connexion crashes for a long time, will you vote against the kick and keep wasting your time ? If your friend starts insulting everyone, will you still root for him even if he's wrong, just for the sake of keeping him in the party ? More importantly, would you not try to calm down the party so that everyone can progress and stop wasting their time ?

fixed that for ya

No, you didn't fix anything...I'd even say you didn't understand what I meant in that post.

[missybee]

most kicks are abusive

They aren't though.

It has been stated at least 4,218 times, but "differing playstyles" is a valid reason per GMs. It might be unfortunate that "differing playstyles" is so generic that it can account for pretty much anything under the sun, but that isn't the fault of the players.

As a result, very few kicks are actually "abusive."