Did you know not performing as you think another player should in a group

[HyoMinPark]

I'd also like to point out that Destatiredux's example simply said "Rhalgr's", as though everyone playing the game immediately understood that it was one of the two level 70 'extreme' dungeon instances. A little bit more background would have meant fewer followup posts.

His initial post about the BLM also mentioned that the BLM was level 70. Regardless of the content, a level 70 BLM should still have a basic understanding of the most basic aspects of their rotation. My point in response to the OP was countering where he was saying we are supposed to help new players learn. and shouldn't kick "new players" from content "designed for them to learn." A level 70 BLM may be a fresh 70, but they aren't a "new player," and, as I said to the OP, they should have an understanding of the most basic aspects of their rotation.

To your point about rotations, it may be easy for you to pay attention, but that does not mean it is easy for everyone. Personally, I have more than enough to do with my rotation and efforts to avoid the instance mechanics.

Even so, there are still things such as DoTs or debuffs that some jobs need to utilize (and should be utilizing), and that can be easily seen on mobs. I always notice when DRGs fail to upkeep Disembowel, or when SMNs don't DoT/Bane mobs, in part because I am watching my own DoT timers on mobs to know if/when to refresh them. Barring all of that, there are still in-game battle logs. While it's not possible to completely examine another player's rotation outside of using third-party software, things such as DoTs/debuffs and even just AOEing when they should be are easy enough to notice without examining with a microscope.

[Snow_Princess]

His initial post about the BLM also mentioned that the BLM was level 70. Regardless of the content, a level 70 BLM should still have a basic understanding of the most basic aspects of their rotation. My point in response to the OP was countering where he was saying we are supposedto help new players learn. and shouldn't kick "new players" from content "designed for them to learn." A level 70 BLM may be a fresh 70, but they aren't a "new player," and, as I said to the OP, they should have an understanding of the most basic aspects of their rotation.



Even so, there are still things such as DoTs or debuffs that some jobs need to utilize (and should be utilizing), and that can be easily seen on mobs. I always notice when DRGs fail to upkeep Disembowel, or when SMNs don't DoT/Bane mobs, in part because I am watching my own DoT timers on mobs to know if/when to refresh them. Barring all of that, there are still in-game battle logs. While it's not possible to completely examine another player's rotation outside of using third-party software, things such as DoTs/debuffs and even just AOEing when they should be are easy enough to notice without examining with a microscope.

Someone at lv 70 may very well be new, I seen a new lv 70 healer that could not handle co healing in delta normal. I think it is the side effect of giving out exp too fast. You are right, people at 70 should know their jobs, but there is plenty that do not, especially those that only have 1 job at 70 with nothing else played. I also seen a blizzard III> fire I >blizzard III.. etc blm who pulled 700 ish dps by the time delta 4.0 normal was over, they started out at around 1.6k or so but kept dying along with the bad rotations ended up at 700 dps.

[ArcanoJones]

You can be 70 in a couple of weeks. You can buy a potion that makes you 60 from the very beginning. Being 70 does not mean you know your job.

[Khaidal]

You can be 70 in a couple of weeks. You can buy a potion that makes you 60 from the very beginning. Being 70 does not mean you know your job.

It doesn't change the fact that at 70 you should know the basics of your job. If that BLM wanted to be dot mage, he should have rolled SMN.

[HyoMinPark]

You can be 70 in a couple of weeks. You can buy a potion that makes you 60 from the very beginning. Being 70 does not mean you know your job.

When you buy a job skip potion, upon using it, the game literally tells you that you are still responsible for learning how to play the job correctly (i.e., reading your skills, asking/accepting advice, etc.). Friend jumped one of his alts up and said upon logging back in, there was a pop-up stating as such. I understand that there are a lot of lazy people out there unwilling to learn, but that doesn't make it acceptable group play to willingly be bad, which is what it sounds like that BLM was doing. Chances are that this BLM probably wasn't even a potion user; they were just bad. There are no excuses for that. Sorry, but that's my opinion.

The fact that you are defending bad play boggles my mind. There is a huge difference between someone being a low-level player completely new to a game and still figuring out how their rotation/job works, and someone rolling a job in a Level 70 dungeon and choosing to be a Thunder Mage just "because."

[Bourne_Endeavor]

If its a PUG group formed through the duty finder. It is there to help new players going through the story find groups to complete that content. That is its purpose. Why do you think the reward is so massive . I get almost a full level for doing just 1 dungeon. It is motivation to do that content.You get a massive reward and then you expect to punish the people that make that reward possible. New players. If you want groups where everybody knows exactly what they are doing and have been in the dungeon and know it like the back of there hand. Don't do roulettes. You are kicking people for being new in a place that is created for new people. What a giant contradiction.

For the third time, today. No, that is not what Duty Finder is for. It exists solely as a means for people to queue into content. How they progress is entirely at their own discretion. The rewards are massive because no one would do it otherwise. I hate Leveling Roulette since I'll more likely end up with Copperbell than Doma Castle. If the rewards for completion weren't high enough, people would either leave immediately or not queue to begin with. If you want to explore and proceed through the dungeon at a leisurely pace, by all means, go ahead. If the three other players don't, you either adapt or don't complain when they boot you for slowing them down.

[Greedalox]

This thread is kind of depressing. The fact that people have to argue for the idea of blatancy over 11 pages is astounding and perhaps a little upsetting. Even if his story about the Thunder Mage wasn't true, its value as a hypothetical would still be there but still the Hug Party is insistent on making sure blatant disruption isn't thwarted and "feelings" aren't hurt- all the while chalking it up to how "New Age MMO's are nothin' like me being OOOOLD SCHOOOOL with my table tops and infant MMO's." What are you even trying to accomplish with that?

[Destatiredux]

I'd also like to point out that Destatiredux's example simply said "Rhalgr's", as though everyone playing the game immediately understood that it was one of the two level 70 'extreme' dungeon instances. A little bit more background would have meant fewer followup posts.

To your point about rotations, it may be easy for you to pay attention, but that does not mean it is easy for everyone. Personally, I have more than enough to do with my rotation and efforts to avoid the instance mechanics.

You're entirely correct, and I apologize for the confusion. I refer to it as Rhalgr's because for some reason I always think of it as "Rhalgr's Fist" because of its location and I can never seem to remember the true name. I'd suppose I could try to remember it by thinking of the Temple of Doom if I didn't already associate that with Bardem's XD

[Destatiredux]

When you buy a job skip potion..."

This. Many times this. Jump potions are a means to be able to "jump" to where your friends are currently at in the story if you are a new player. It should not be an excuse to not know the workings of your job, and the game tells you as such. Even if you're jumping in by yourself, with no friends, the game provides many resources for discovering how your job works- this is why the novice network, the hall of the novice, training dummies scattered throughout the realm, and even palace of the dead (to some degree) exist.

[Destatiredux]

Snip

You are both correct to an extent. Duty Finder is a means to access content for ALL players, not just new people. Likewise, Duty Roulettes were made as a separate function of the Duty Finder to ensure that veterans return to help new or returning players with content new to them while earning rewards. However, this is not the case for the Expert Roulette, which was made less as a function to help players new to that content and more to help veterans grind for tomes and gear. This is why the Expert Roulette only rolls the three most recent endgame dungeons, as most players who have reached level 70 (and who should know their job) have already cleared this content. This distinction is what the OP needs to realize when we say the BLM was not new (arguments of why a level 70 doesn't know his job notwithstanding) and perhaps the OP doesn't know that because he hasn't reached current endgame content to even know what the Expert Roulette is.