Did you know not performing as you think another player should in a group

[MoroMurasaki]

Did you wipe..If not..You where completelly wrong IMO.Not a chance I am going to see your cause for ruining somebodies enjoyment of the game when it was not personally harming you in any way. I would never vote for it. Not a chance. Sound sot me like you guys where harrasing him actually.

This is an indefensible point. You say you have to respect everyones preferred gameplay method but then tell other people who don't share your opinion that they are wrong.

We have opinions and preferences as well and they are not automatically wrong. In the end majority rules, that BLM got kicked (as he should have been) and people who play that way will continie to get kicked (as they should if they dont respond to friendly advice) so you are on the losing side here.

[missybee]

I remember the old days when I first started playing MMOs. People would take there time. They would talk. It was a social event. It was an adventure.

I wanted to comment on this wistful nostalgia as someone who has also been playing MMOs for a long time.

While it was great to be able to binge games like iRO, WoW, and XI back when I was in high school, the fact of the matter is that I grew up and I can't invest that many hours in the game per day. I place a much higher value on my time now as opposed to 15+ years ago, and I that seems to be a pretty common mentality. The average age of MMO players nowadays seems to hang out around the mid to late twenties and people of that age demographic are going to have full-time jobs and other responsibilities. Not everyone is going to want to spend an hour doing something that can be done in 12 minutes.

I will happily make exceptions and offer advice to people who are willing to learn and improve, but no one should be expected to sympathize with obstinate dingdongs who have no respect for other people's time (such as Destatiredux's BLM, etc).

[xJimmehx]

If they wanna play like that

If somebody is doing 80% top dps in a dungeon, and trying to do perform well, although not very skilled. I dont think the missing 20% is reason to kick them. If they are trying to intentionally grief you, I would kick.

What does my opinion on how we treat others in a dungeon have to do with "nice things?"

In short I simply believe this community is full of people who act entitled. I haven't picked sides with anyone. So i don't follow with what you're trying to say there, or how it is related to anything other than how well we get along and how often people become kicked from duty finder without so much as a "hello/would you like some advice/etc".

[Destatiredux]

And I point out again which you seem to be ignoring if the group is through the duty finder then new players should be expected. And you should not expect expert play. If you want that. Find your groups in another way.

This. Black Mage. Was not. New. Say it with me now! In fact, this dungeon is in what you would call the EXPERT roulette. If this was, say, a leveling run in Copperbell Normal then this would have been an entirely different discussion. But people who are in endgame content are expected to play with at least a passing form of efficiency, with exception to people who are handicapped in some fashion. I'm really curious now, since you keep insisting on this being the subject of kicking new players; what exactly prompted this whole thread to start with? I'd like to know because it seems like you're stuck on this concept, or else consider all people who perform as that Black Mage did to be "new players."

[missybee]

If somebody is doing 80% top dps in a dungeon, and trying to do perform well, although not very skilled. I dont think the missing 20% is reason to kick them. If they are trying to intentionally grief you, I would kick.

No one is getting kicked over doing 20% less damage than the best of the best.

Hell, in a landscape where 3.5k DPS is pretty average, I would still not kick someone who was pulling like...half that.

People get kicked when they repeatedly spam Straight Shot and when they are asked to maybe attempt a proper rotation, they say "YOU DON'T PAY MY SUB."

[Paladinleeds]

snip

Ok, what about everyone else's enjoyment? GMs say "Playstyle Differences" and won't intervene. Not wiping isn't the only thing that matters. Most people don't want that. I'll be blunt here, with your attitude, expect to be kicked from many more groups. If someone initiates a VK because of one wipe, I won't accept the vote. But toxic attitude, refusal to improval (not to be confused with inability to improve), etc, I will kick for. The BLM being snarky when asked about it and refusing to improve or even listen to the advise, yeah I'd kick for that. I'll understand if you're struggling and I'll always try to advise first, but if you get nasty with me over it, I have no regrets kicking. It's group play, everyone's needs are treated equally (except in mitigating circumstances such as you're new, you have a disability, etc). Pulling the "my sub my way" card, when everyone else disagrees in the group, that's a valid "playstyle difference" kick.

[bswpayton]

I remember the old days when I first started playing MMOs. People would take there time. They would talk. It was a social event. It was an adventure. I go into PUGs now. Nobody says a word to anyone as the entire group speedruns the dungeon. I sure miss those old days playing Everyquest and WOW when it first came out of 2006. Those where the MMO heyday. Now nobody says a word to you and most people ar enot helpful and will kick you out of the group at the slightest provocation. However I have met some nice people in groups so I am not saying everybody is that way. But it seems the majority are.

Just have to adapt

[kkarzin]

If somebody is doing 80% top dps in a dungeon, and trying to do perform well, although not very skilled. I dont think the missing 20% is reason to kick them. If they are trying to intentionally grief you, I would kick.

Clearly you do not know how BLM works, Thunder is not 80% of a BLM total damage output... Nowhere near. With only casting thunder, you do not get access to any Astral or umbral buffs to damage or mp regen. You cannot keep up Enochian, you cannot cast fire IV, our Foul. The only proc you get is Tunderhead which gives you an instant cast thunder spell with all the damage out front... Only casting thunder lets the BLM maybe do 10% of their actual damage

[Khaidal]

Yes not wiping is the only thing that matters. Again a person who seems to think what he wants is all that matters. And I point out again which you seem to be ignoring if the group is through the duty finder then new players should be expected. And you should not expect expert play. If you want that. Find your groups in another way.

You sound like you'd defend the scholars who would auto follow the tank and let the fairy heal the dungeon. They weren't wiping, so by your definition it's ok. Their enjoyment is letting everyone else finish the run while they watch YouTube. Why should 3 out of 4 people in a run have to do their job while one person gets a pass?

[Snow_Princess]

No I'm not. The opinion I hear from several people is if you slow them down from doing dungeons even though its there choice to do them and they are using the duty finder which the reason it even exists is to help new players they are going to kick you from the group. Correct me if I am wrong. I am not talking about a person who causes the group to wipe several times. I am simply talking about a person who is not playing as efficiently as people think they should.

Only time I seen that an issue was to new healers during late 2.0, otherwise the case of that happening now is very rare. I suspect it is from premade kick abuse when that happens. I seen it a few times but it is def a lot more rarer then compared what new healers had go though while game was late into 2.0, where people expected you be in i120 gear.