Did you know not performing as you think another player should in a group

[Paladinleeds]

The point a lot of us have made still stands though: if we give a player advice on how to perform better and improve (e.g., when and how they should be using their AOE skills), it's common courtesy for the player to accept such advice with grace, especially since a lot of advice is devised out in a very polite way by the helpful people in this community.

Yeah, if someone says "Oh, I was advised to do this" or "Oh, I find doing this is better" when I give them advice. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and will work with them to hash out the best possible thing. I'm not infalliable, sometimes my well-intentioned advice isn't correct. I'm willing to listen and figure out the best thing. If you've been receiving conflicting information that means you're now confused, ok, no problem. Let's work it out together. Just communicate with me and be civil and we'll have no issues.

[Khaidal]

Jybil don't you know that the duty finder is there so that NEW players can get groups to go through the MSQ dungeons. But you specifically said not to come into the DF doing that or you will get kicked.

For the last time NO IT IS NOT. Duty Finder is there so all players can get stuff done in a timely manner. Want to do a dungeon for exp? Use DF. Want to do pvp? Use DF. Gotta do your expert roulette? Use DF. Do you see where I'm going? Duty finder is for EVERYONE.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

And what happens if that player is just learning the class and isn't very familiar with their single target rotations, let alone their aoe?

Although I was speaking more towards current dungeons, I do have an example. A while back two friends and I queued into Leveling Roulette and got a brand new tank. She pulled without either stance, which my friend reminded her to put on. No reason as she pulls away. We actually wipe this time around since her gear is equally abysmal. Still no reason when I bring up Shield Oath. It took my friend losing her patience and all caps screaming Shield Oath for this person to finally listen. At that point, we kicked her. New player status shouldn't exempt you from standard courtesy. Back when I was new, I found out how much better Doom Spike was than Ring of Thorns and thanked the people who brought it up for me. Nothing is more irksome than trying to help someone and them refusing to listen. It's entirely different if they were told something and ask about it. At least we can talk, but to just ignore people? That is what's rude.

[Avatre]

At least we can talk, but to just ignore people? That is what's rude.

Did you use auto translate for it? I've found that sometimes it's not that they are ignoring, it's that they don't understand because of language barriers. Even people who have English selected doesn't mean they are able to speak/read English the same as anyone else. Not saying it's the case, but sometimes it does help.

[HyoMinPark]

Sorry if its seems like a personal attack I apoligiize. Maybe it was to harsh. But you guys are all attacking me for saying I am not going to kick somebody just because they are not performing with perfect efficiency. If the group is not wiping and completing the dungeon then its not even an issue regardless of what they are doing. You guys seem to be saying that if they are making the dungeon run any longer than it needs to be there going to get kicked. That shows the game is more important that the person to me. I just pointed it out to you is all. Nothing personal.

I am not attacking you for having a different playstyle with regards to myself, nor did I inherently assume that you considered the players in this game as nothing more than mere NPCs and not actual people. Merely I am disagreeing with you on the basis that I do not want to carry underperforming players in higher level content (note: I am not speaking about new players in low-level dungeons still learning, but players in later content that should be very well aware of the bare basics of their job and rotation), and what I consider respectful and courteous play. I disagreed with you on your opinion regarding the Thunder Mage frequently brought up in the course of this discussion, and I also disagreed with you that the time of one player is more important than the time of the entire party. Duties are a team effort in this game, and the entire team needs to be taken into consideration, not just the time and playstyle of one individual, underperforming or overperforming.

My discussion about the current state of the Vote Dismiss feature was more of a tangent discussion, and in no way was meant as a personal attack against you nor any of the posters I was debating with. Rather, it was a discussion, which is the purpose of a forum. I do not devolve into personal attacks against posters to try and get my points across, which is what I felt like you did to me in your point to try and say that people should respect others. I have a general amount of respect for any and all people I group with. However, the minute I try to genuinely help a player and they brush off my advice with a "I don't care" or "it's my sub, I play how I want", and clearly do not care that they are a hindrance to the group, that is when they lose my respect. If someone is not going to show the rest of a party a basic amount of respect, they do not deserve the same courtesy in return. Respect is something that is earned.

[missybee]

I've said it several times and so have a fair few others in this thread - we aren't referring to new players or people who are still learning.

I think a big problem is that everyone is too focused on their delicate covfeefees. If a suggestion is made as to how to optimize your play, it isn't necessarily an attack. From what I have seen both in-game and on the forums, however, a lot of people seem to take critiques of their play really personally.

I will not kick someone who is trying. I will, however, kick someone who is spamming a single attack and being petulant when asked to optimize. This isn't a difficult concept to grasp. I don't appreciate having my time wasted.

[akaneakki]

I will not kick someone who is trying. I will, however, kick someone who is spamming a single attack and being petulant when asked to optimize. This isn't a difficult concept to grasp. I don't appreciate having my time wasted.

This. I don't know why people take things as ''you need to improve'' as personal attacks. I know there are some people who will flat out say they are shit, but that's a whole different story. Many times I've tried to make people improve being nice about it, all I get is that they wanna play they way they play and I can't do anything about it. Or the old excuse most people use ''elitist prick'' etc. Many and I say many players like yourself and myself included wants people to improve and we want to be a good source for a group, while on the other hand many don't want to be, they rather just sit back and let people do their shit for them. Selfish, ignorant, greedy etc etc. That's what I usually call these players tbh.

[Snow_Princess]

Sorry if its seems like a personal attack I apoligiize. Maybe it was to harsh. But you guys are all attacking me for saying I am not going to kick somebody just because they are not performing with perfect efficiency. If the group is not wiping and completing the dungeon then its not even an issue regardless of what they are doing. You guys seem to be saying that if they are making the dungeon run any longer than it needsto be there going to get kicked. That shows the game is more important that the person to me. I just pointed it out to you is all. Nothing personal.

You are over exaggerating on your interpretation on what people are saying. No one is asking for perfect performance, what people do not want is a 1 button hitting bot. I was in a place called Aetherochemical Research Facility. 3 people where new, one was lv 69 who commented they never did it before. So I asked how they got 69 with out clearing the place (I wanted some information to see how well they will take advice) once they told me they bought a leveling potion and new to the game I simply said use spreadshot with 3+ enemies. I guided the run, told them the moves, they tried and we did fine. It was subpar performance from an elitist view and slow but they where trying, no argumentative comebacks when giving advice. I also told the tank not to use NQ weapons because they are sub par ( I really wish SE do something about NQ vs HQ weapons, it is a noob trap people use to bypass ilevel requirements)

Unlike my situation, if I was in the very same situation as that thundermage story you are trying to defend, I would kick them too. Not because of the playstyle, but because of the reply they got. You are a very new player, talking to people that ran thousands of DFs, so much so some of us can spot weak DPS just off the speed things die and seeing attack animations/ buffs and debuffs. Vote kick also has a 4 hour CD, so it prevents people being ultra picky, it is usually reserved for outright trolling, and other things that violate the ToS directly. In your case of SMN, if all you do is cast ruin I over and over, you ignore the rotation advice I give, and you promptly reply with something on the lines of "You do not pay for my sub" then expect a kick.

Did you use auto translate for it? I've found that sometimes it's not that they are ignoring, it's that they don't understand because of language barriers. Even people who have English selected doesn't mean they are able to speak/read English the same as anyone else. Not saying it's the case, but sometimes it does help.

Not an excuse, the person could of flashed an auto translate message that they do not understand, it is what I do.

[ArcanoJones]

Sorry ..But I don't tell people how to play there character. If they ask for advice thats another story. But unsolicited comments on what they should be doing are usually going to be taken with a mind your own business attitude. That is human nature . And most people will react in that way. Thats just the way people are. If you think about it you would act the same. Especially now when you think you know what you are doing.

I don't know why people are suprised that people react this way.

[Paladinleeds]

Sorry ..But I don't tell people how to play there character. If they ask for advice thats another story. But unsolicited comments on what they should be doing are usually going to be taken with a mind your own business attitude. That is human nature . And most people will react in that way. Thats just the way people are. If you think about it you would act the same. Especially now when you think you know what you are doing.

I don't know why people are suprised that people react this way.

Maybe because I've done it so many times and 9 times out of 10 I've received a positive response? Perhaps it has something to do with how I'm phrasing it. I do it as a "Have you considered this?" type approach. Pointing them out to something new that may be worth them trying. I phrase it in a way that is taken as a suggestion, and most people will at least try it I find.