Did you know not performing as you think another player should in a group

[akaneakki]

If a player doesnt want to improve and spam freeze after flare all the time, then yes they play it the way they want. Their intention is to play bad. There is a difference people wanting to improve over not wanting. If you dont wanna improve you play with like minded people.

[ArcanoJones]

Jybil don't you know that the duty finder is there so that NEW players can get groups to go through the MSQ dungeons. But you specifically said not to come into the DF doing that or you will get kicked.

[magnanimousCynic]

snip

So when does a player stop being "new" to you; 50? 60? 70? Full Verity? EX Primal gear?

It's extremely obvious that Micah, Jybril, and others are talking about EXPERT roulette, which has level 70 dungeons that are the most recent content, content that you currently don't have access to. Do you honestly think a new person can just walk in there, going through the 69 previous levels, 40 MSQ required 4-man and 8-man duties, ~600 Main Story Quests (maybe some duplicates due to the starting levels), and STILL think that said player in end-game content isn't at fault for not knowing how to play their job at a passable level?

This is hopeless.

[Khaidal]

Jybil don't you know that the duty finder is there so that NEW players can get groups to go through the MSQ dungeons. But you specifically said not to come into the DF doing that or you will get kicked.

For the last time NO IT IS NOT. Duty Finder is there so all players can get stuff done in a timely manner. Want to do a dungeon for exp? Use DF. Want to do pvp? Use DF. Gotta do your expert roulette? Use DF. Do you see where I'm going? Duty finder is for EVERYONE.

[MoroMurasaki]

Arcano I have a question for you.

I don't know if you've gotten to the end of the MSQ content but right now one of the last duties called The Royal Menagerie. If you haven't done it yourself you can see videos on youtube so you have an idea of what to expect.

It is (for main story content) a rather difficult fight but the tomestone of verity/creation gear, omega normal and savage raids and the continuation of the main story of the game is all locked behind this one fight.

Again this argument is sort of contingent on you understanding this fight, I will pull up videos for you if you ask.

The question I have is are you okay with never moving forward with the main story? You could not clear this fight with the caliber of player you are defending. You couldn't even outgear it because any gear upgrades other than crafted gear (which at level 70 is millions of gil per set) are locked behind it.

The only way you get to clear this is by queueing and getting some competent players. Again you don't need to be a savage raider or anything but you need a basic understanding of your job as magnanimousCynic points out above.

Would you burden every other player in the game with carrying these people through that content? Because frankly I've had to carry plenty of people on this fight and it can get rough.

What is your solution to this? Do those players need to improve then? Do they have to never progress their main story because they can't clear this? Are you telling the rest of us to just suck it up and carry them? Because for all your talk of "let people play however they want" it would be sort of hypocritical of you to tell me I have to carry these people for my Trial Roulette every day.

[Endeleon]

I'm so glad I moved to a Japanese world I don't have to deal with this crap. People just act like the adults they are and do their job, and deal with it if someone is underperforming instead of acting selfish and entitled.

[HyoMinPark]

I'm so glad I moved to a Japanese world I don't have to deal with this crap. People just act like the adults they are and do their job, and deal with it if someone is underperforming instead of acting selfish and entitled.

It's also selfish to willingly underperform one's job just because "it's my sub and I play the way I want to play." There's nothing wrong with individuals not wanting to carry players through content when the content is far enough into the game/leveling process that the underperformer should have the most basic understanding of their job and role in a group. My actual understanding from Japanese parties is that they still expect everyone to work together and pull their own weight when it comes to clearing content. Not that they just willingly carry bad players.

And what happens if that player is just learning the class and isn't very familiar with their single target rotations, let alone their aoe?

We are mostly discussing players in content closer to endgame (specifically, a lot of us have been talking about Level 70 dungeons and how players should have the most basic understanding of their job at such a level), not discussing players that have just unlocked a job and are still trying to understand how it works.

The point a lot of us have made still stands though: if we give a player advice on how to perform better and improve (e.g., when and how they should be using their AOE skills), it's common courtesy for the player to accept such advice with grace, especially since a lot of advice is devised out in a very polite way by the helpful people in this community. If the person continues to just blatantly underperform after being politely educated on more efficient ways to play their job, that is rude and a slap in the face to the party trying to help them, and if the party decides to dismiss the player from the duty, they are allowed to do so if the majority rules it's warranted.

We are not talking about brand new players or players that have just unlocked a job and that are still learning.

[Paladinleeds]

The point a lot of us have made still stands though: if we give a player advice on how to perform better and improve (e.g., when and how they should be using their AOE skills), it's common courtesy for the player to accept such advice with grace, especially since a lot of advice is devised out in a very polite way by the helpful people in this community.

Yeah, if someone says "Oh, I was advised to do this" or "Oh, I find doing this is better" when I give them advice. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and will work with them to hash out the best possible thing. I'm not infalliable, sometimes my well-intentioned advice isn't correct. I'm willing to listen and figure out the best thing. If you've been receiving conflicting information that means you're now confused, ok, no problem. Let's work it out together. Just communicate with me and be civil and we'll have no issues.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

And what happens if that player is just learning the class and isn't very familiar with their single target rotations, let alone their aoe?

Although I was speaking more towards current dungeons, I do have an example. A while back two friends and I queued into Leveling Roulette and got a brand new tank. She pulled without either stance, which my friend reminded her to put on. No reason as she pulls away. We actually wipe this time around since her gear is equally abysmal. Still no reason when I bring up Shield Oath. It took my friend losing her patience and all caps screaming Shield Oath for this person to finally listen. At that point, we kicked her. New player status shouldn't exempt you from standard courtesy. Back when I was new, I found out how much better Doom Spike was than Ring of Thorns and thanked the people who brought it up for me. Nothing is more irksome than trying to help someone and them refusing to listen. It's entirely different if they were told something and ask about it. At least we can talk, but to just ignore people? That is what's rude.

[Avatre]

At least we can talk, but to just ignore people? That is what's rude.

Did you use auto translate for it? I've found that sometimes it's not that they are ignoring, it's that they don't understand because of language barriers. Even people who have English selected doesn't mean they are able to speak/read English the same as anyone else. Not saying it's the case, but sometimes it does help.