The World: so Big so Beautiful... But yet so empty

[LalaRu]

This thread recalls me the past debate(s) about the maps soooo smaaaall and need be biiiiiigger because people felt "Claustrophobic". Cannot make everyone happy, isn't it.

[Limecat]

That's pretty much the fate of all MMOs. Can't be helped. More areas are added, there's less and less reason to go back to old ones. In this case it's far worse because there's nothing of value in the open world, no rare drops, no out of the way packs of mobs that are useful to farm, no special anythings anywhere. We don't even have the benefit of alts of all levels swarming around, since you don't need any(nightmare mode alts for more crafting specializations aside) due to the job system the game uses, or tiered PvP that twinks would hold a specific level for.

This thread recalls me the past debate(s) about the maps soooo smaaaall and need be biiiiiigger because people felt "Claustrophobic". Cannot make everyone happy, isn't it.

That probably wouldn't be an issue if they removed hard zoning and made the world contiguous.

[TankHunter678]

That probably wouldn't be an issue if they removed hard zoning and made the world contiguous.

I am sure people loved running through endlessly looping loading tunnels where you saw the same rock in the same spot every 30 feet.

[Naunet]

I am sure people loved running through endlessly looping loading tunnels where you saw the same rock in the same spot every 30 feet.

Why do people think this is the only way to do open world zones? Surely you've played MMOs other than FFXIV 1.0.

[enthauptet]

Why do people think this is the only way to do open world zones? Surely you've played MMOs other than FFXIV 1.0.

It was that way in the past in one game out of thousands, it has to be the only solution!

But with that being said, a bit problem is a large portion of the maps are not traversed during story quests or just for one or two where we go and forget about it. One that comes to my mind is the right hand side and bottom portion of the fringes map. There are just a few quests all in the same area from the same quest giver for these areas so there is no reason to go around them and you don't see people wondering around either because of it. The lochs is a really extreme example though. It's a neat looking area with some cool spots but the lack of quests, things to do and 20 second looping music makes people not want to be there.

[Ultimatecalibur]

But with that being said, a bit problem is a large portion of the maps are not traversed during story quests or just for one or two where we go and forget about it. One that comes to my mind is the right hand side and bottom portion of the fringes map. There are just a few quests all in the same area from the same quest giver for these areas so there is no reason to go around them and you don't see people wondering around either because of it.

The SE portion of the Fringes is fairly bare right now due to it being the Deltascape entrance and the future base for the Anata Beast tribe quests.

The lochs is a really extreme example though. It's a neat looking area with some cool spots but the lack of quests, things to do and 20 second looping music makes people not want to be there.

The Lochs come off as if they designed it to have room for endgame content.

SB seems to suffer a lot from the "blaze through to 70" mentality.

[TankHunter678]

Why do people think this is the only way to do open world zones? Surely you've played MMOs other than FFXIV 1.0.

I have played other MMOs with the "seamless open world" which if you ever had slow loading were basically stitched together with endlessly looping loading tunnels, be they tunnels with visible walls or not. As the system still had to unload the area you were leaving and load in the area you are entering.

In going from 1.x to 2.0 they simply swapped the copy paste endlessly looping terrain for loading screens. Since people complained about the copy paste terrain.

So yeah, that is literally what developers do in attempting to make the open world "seamless". Partition off areas with loading walls between them and a section of the terrain set as the loading wall terrain. If you got a strong machine that is quick to load, and a good connection to back it up, it seems seamless when really it is not.

[Naunet]

I have played other MMOs with the "seamless open world" which if you ever had slow loading were basically stitched together with endlessly looping loading tunnels, be they tunnels with visible walls or not. As the system still had to unload the area you were leaving and load in the area you are entering.

I can climb over mountains and around valleys, swim across rivers, jump cliffs, and in some cases even fly from zone to zone in WoW, Rift, TERA, WildStar, Archeage, and BDO - and those are just the ones I've played in. NEVER have I felt like I was being funneled through a narrow, looping tunnel in the way people describe 1.0.

[Shurrikhan]

This thread recalls me the past debate(s) about the maps soooo smaaaall and need be biiiiiigger because people felt "Claustrophobic". Cannot make everyone happy, isn't it.

Please stop making this out to be an unwinnable balance of two opposites. This isn't a spectrum. Zones can be "big" and "lively". They should be both.

The crux of the issue has always been that once MSQ has been completed in the area, zones no longer feel like a foundation for content, or solely for gimmick-ish grinding at best.

Seriously though, I think the balance needs to be a bit smaller than the new maps and about as 'busy' as the ARR maps.

But there's no "balance" to it, anymore than would be the size of a car and its paint-job. Once SE has an idea in mind as to what they actually want zones to accomplish, the time spent allowing those assets to fill that function is far smaller even if far more effective, and to a degree inseparable from the assets themselves. Reconsidering how to reach the appropriate "equilibrium" when working from a particular concept, cutting it short to reduce work time (shrinking the car to accelerate its paint-job, so to speak), would likely push back schedules as much as the work itself. And given Stormblood's alleged budget there shouldn't be any reason to.

Now, 'crowding' is an actual spectrum, and affects the moods given by the maps, but that is entirely tangential to making a zone feel impactful in ambiance, and less relevant still to making it feel impactful or plentiful as a basis for content.

I am sure people loved running through endlessly looping loading tunnels where you saw the same rock in the same spot every 30 feet.

This applied only to the main roads of the southern half of the Black Shroud, not to:
- Mor Dhona, which was then 5 times its current size.
- Coerthas, which is still about double the size of Central and Western Thanalan combined
- Thanalan
- La Noscea

So let's not act like small samples from design decisions made solely in hopes of meeting deadlines tightened further than ARR's and with a fifth its staff and budget are representative of everything that any other design philosophy might accomplish.

[Felis]

This applied only to the main roads of the southern half of the Black Shroud, not to:
- Mor Dhona, which was then 5 times its current size.
- Coerthas, which is still about double the size of Central and Western Thanalan combined
- Thanalan
- La Noscea

They don't had tunnels, yes. But they had canyons