Last straw

[DeadRiser]

Lol these people aren't getting it. You shouldn't have to change your class to something you don't like just because people want you to. I could understand if there were too many healers or too many tanks, but I mean come on, there are never enough DD's (or no more than 6 in our case).

I'm not changing because people ask me to, I'll play what class I want or I'm not gonna do the run

[Gramul]

You shouldn't have to change your class to something you don't like just because people want you to.

Then expect not to get invited.

People shouldn't have to accept your class just because you're too stubborn to adapt. Class changes aren't even a big deal in this game. It's one of it's biggest selling points.

And even then, you can make your own party or join a casual linkshell. There are ways around this.

[DeadRiser]

Then expect not to get invited.

People shouldn't have to accept your class just because you're too stubborn to adapt. Class changes aren't even a big deal in this game. It's one of it's biggest selling points.

And even then, you can make your own party or join a casual linkshell. There are ways around this.

No it's not being stubborn, it's going against the norm. Class stacking is a bullcrap excuse for trying to beat a primal fight, and I can't wait till they balance it. I'm tired of class stacking.

Yeah adapting to the situation is important, but adapting to class stacking is stupid.

[Gramul]

Class Stacking is stupid

In any other MMO, I'd agree.
But the fact that you can change classes on the fly makes it a pretty weak complaint to me. You're not bound to one class like with other MMO's.

Need to be an archer in this situation? Be an archer.
Situation calls for a tank? Be a Gladiator.
Need to heal your party? Go for Conjurer.

The only thing stopping you is yourself.

By the by, I hope this doesn't sour my position in Counter Post. I really am a good boy. Honest I am.

[AdvancedWind]

In any other MMO, I'd agree.
But the fact that you can change classes on the fly makes it a pretty weak complaint to me. You're not bound to one class like with other MMO's.

Need to be an archer in this situation? Be an archer.
Situation calls for a tank? Be a Gladiator.
Need to heal your party? Go for Conjurer.

The only thing stopping you is yourself.

By the by, I hope this doesn't sour my position in Counter Post. I really am a good boy. Honest I am.

However, most of the time in other MMOs, outside of very specific fights and setups, you won't be rejected by 90% of the community because you aren't class X.

Sure, in FFXIV we can change classes, but what you're saying is simply: "Leveled X to cap only to discover no one does endgame on X? Too bad, level up Y or gtfo, we don't want lazy players" which is stupid. All classes should be equally viable on most endgame fights, then people with multiple classes should have an extra advantage due to that fact, instead of the current fights that does "enforce" cookie cutter stacking setups that the community will obviously jump on once discovered.

And no, just because PLing is rampant it doesn't give any excuses to this mentality and the developers should try to balance fights in a way that class stacking isn't so much more effective than everything else.

[Arland]

We have two groups for moogle in our LS, both without ARC tactic. One group has GLA, 2xMRD, 2xARC, 1xTHM, 2xCON, the other 2xGLA, 3xLNC(MRD/PUG sometimes), ARC, 2x CON. Both groups are successfull in beating the encounter. We keep getting questions like "No ARC onry, why? U shtupid?! Wery easy!" - Of course we know that, but we wan't to play what we want with tactics we forged for ourselves, some adjustments are made for sure but we refuse to stick with one setup just because it is branded "the best".

We did this with Ifrit and Oger/Batraal too. There are LS out there who won't force you to play a specific class, your just have to find them... I'm sure you'll find a LS fitting your playstyle! Maybe you should consider joining one of them instead of going with random groups.

[Gramul]

So basically you're saying you either play the flavor of the month or get left behind? Yeah, that's sure going to keep the playerbase happy.

That will change with the addition of content.

It's only "flavor of the month" because we only get one battle every update. When the game is "complete" we'll have many different battles that will favor different classes. And it's not like Ifrit is gone or anything.

You're not going to be left "behind". You're just not useful for this battle.

However, most of the time in other MMOs, outside of very specific fights and setups, you won't be rejected by 90% of the community because you aren't class X.

Sure, in FFXIV we can change classes, but what you're saying is simply: "Leveled X to cap only to discover no one does endgame on X? Too bad, level up Y or gtfo, we don't want lazy players" which is stupid. All classes should be equally viable on most endgame fights, then people with multiple classes should have an extra advantage due to that fact, instead of the current fights that does "enforce" cookie cutter stacking setups that the community will obviously jump on once discovered.

But the main feature of the game presented is the fact that you're supposed to change classes to fit whatever situation you're in. No, I don't think all classes should be viable for most endgame fights. I think we should have a wide range of enemies that require different strategies and setups to defeat. Something that takes advantage of the class flexibility we have. If you don't want to level another class to participate in a fight well suited for that class, suit yourself, you don't have to fight it.

I'd rather not sacrifice variety for equality in this case. Especially sense we only have 2 of these fights so far.

[NoctisUmbra]

You're not going to be left "behind". You're just not useful for this battle.

Careful. Last thing people need is to hear more lies. Every class is useful for the fight. ARC is the the easiest.

I can sympathize for TC. I can never seem to get a group for these battles, and when I do it's far from a winning one.

So you blame the game? Seems like the popular thing to do now.

[Ava]

I think SE needs to seriously look at what other MMORPGs are doing and adopt some of their balance habits. Something several MMOs have done that has worked wonderfully for class balance is give classes exclusive raid buffs. This way, an archer can do less dps, but if it can give your entire party an accuracy or attack power aura, then it would be worth taking one anyways. Or if Marauder gave a str/vit buff to everyone, and GLA gave the entire party like 5% damage reduction, etc. As of now, the only thing they have even close to this outside of CJR protect is a couple WS effects which seem completely underwhelming, and aren't personal buffs.

This would enable them to make certain classes damage output slightly lower than others while giving them the utility of buffing the others with no sacrifice to the group's total dps. If there is no utility outside of ranged/melee, and everyone is balanced to do similar dps, parses will always pick out one that is like .5 avg dps higher and people will ask for only those people because this is what FFXI trained people to do. Classes need more utility. A lot more. If they don't do it with jobs, then this game will suffer the same fate FFXI did. BLM/RNG only.

[AdvancedWind]

That will change with the addition of content.

It's only "flavor of the month" because we only get one battle every update. When the game is "complete" we'll have many different battles that will favor different classes. And it's not like Ifrit is gone or anything.

You're not going to be left "behind". You're just not useful for this battle.



But the main feature of the game presented is the fact that you're supposed to change classes to fit whatever situation you're in. No, I don't think all classes should be viable for most endgame fights. I think we should have a wide range of enemies that require different strategies and setups to defeat. Something that takes advantage of the class flexibility we have. If you don't want to level another class to participate in a fight well suited for that class, suit yourself, you don't have to fight it.

I'd rather not sacrifice variety for equality in this case. Especially sense we only have 2 of these fights so far.

So, what you're saying is that if one wants to experience endgame on it's entirety, he should level all battle classes to cap or risk sitting out (unless he gets into an "alternative" group that "goes against the norm") every few patches, and the developers should keep making content that favors specific classes because that's a "feature" of the game? They shouldn't even bother if the community is just stacking classes against everything they made, and in fact should encourage this behaviour?

Now there's something I completely disagree with.

Not to mention that at this point we don't even have enough content. Or are you just going to tell pugilists, for example, to "wait" until god knows when a PUG-stacking fight is developed or go level something else?

Heck, when that comes I'm pretty sure someone out there will say pugs "need" the moogle weapon to join but pugs "can't" get into a group to kill it because their archer or conjurer isn't high enough


Sure, some fights here and there that require very specific setups are not bad, but until now ALL battles encourage class stacking.

Of course, it's very damn hard to balance everything for everyone and there will always be that one group of classes that perform better than others (and players that leveled all to 50 can use these classes and have an easier time beating said content), but the developers should ALWAYS try to avoid situations like Ogre, Ifrit and Moogle where stacking a single class is far more effective than any other strategy.