A simple revamp to Cleric Stance that might fix raid balancing..

[Fernosaur]

This is, provided the tank is full HP, every 30s Upheaval could in theory do more than Fell Cleve for just 20 BG. You think that 220 Malefic III GCD is still worth more than a heal GCD?

In the hypothetic scenario that you're my random DF tank and I'm your random DF healer where we have absolutely no way to communicate, I'm not going to bother keeping your HP at 100% throughout the entire fight on the off-chance that you manage to get your 900 potency Upheaval, because that would require spending 2 out of every 5ish GCD healing you, probably, due to the guess game of when the hell you're going to use the Upheaval in question. Specially so if you're the kind of tank that can't mitigate stray damage. Regens and abilities alone should be enough to keep you above 60% on most bosses, and that's as much as you should expect in Duty Finder because there's no way to coordinate well in DF except predicting standards of play. In trash pulls? I'm going to out-DPS you anyways, so be ready to fall under 40%.

In a raid environment? Sure, if you communicate that you'll get your big dick DPS Upheaval soon, I'll do my best to time a big heal on you to get as much mileage out of it as possible.

That's it, though. Proposing that the entire healer playstyle be changed for two skills on two tank jobs out of three is a hilarious and childish whim.

[Ogulbuk]

Childish is to have a raid fail because the healer thought it was more important to throw a sad ST attack instead of a heal. And the subject of the thread IS raids.

[Maku]

Childish is to have a raid fail because the healer thought it was more important to throw a sad ST attack instead of a heal. And the subject of the thread IS raids.

You are right but people do raids in DF groups as well so it isn't a totally removed conversation.

And I don't think most healers would be comfortable letting the tank drop below 70% in a raid situation so probably still a moot argument.

The stars have to be aligned pretty well for that upheaval to get that kinda damage though and the HP drop off probably isn't that significant. Plus this is a WAR we are talking about. You can heal yourself for a good bit before your upheavals if a healer isn't on point.

Also, a raid will not fail before you didn't get your 910 upheavals. It will fail because we let you die, which we wouldn't let you do in either scenario.

[Ogulbuk]

First: sadly, too many healers will actually let the tank go down to 20% in PUG raids. Statics are different, since such healers will not be accepted to be part of the group.

My point about Upheaval is not to try to get 910 often, but should the HP be too low, upheaval suddenly goes past decent and all the way down to a waste of BG. The raid wont fail because the war or pld cant do their HP% based attacks at full potency, but nor will it fail because the healer makes sure the tank is always over 75% HP. Healer aoe damage is ridiculously good, but ST damage isn't.

[Sebazy]

First: sadly, too many healers will actually let the tank go down to 20% in PUG raids. Statics are different, since such healers will not be accepted to be part of the group.

Someone's clearly not gotten to Neoexdeath yet (or done A8S for that matter!) =(

[VanilleFang]

First: sadly, too many healers will actually let the tank go down to 20% in PUG raids.

Pretty sure that's a reason WHM has Benediction. Sometimes letting the tank drop low is strategic.

[Trunks]

Boss auto-attacks are generally pretty trivial and everything else is scripted. If the tank is at ~30% HP (20% is pushing it) but I know there's not a tank buster or some other massive damage for another 6-7 GCDs, Stone IV it is. For WHM specifically, compulsively topping off HP bars is a complete waste of one of your core strengths. Let Regen do work.

Btw, I love how this conversation dominates literally every thread in this subforum, but somehow discussions never wind up being about all the tanks who just eat Vuln stacks for days and what a drag they are on my healer DPS. Why is that?

[Sebazy]

somehow discussions never wind up being about all the tanks who just eat Vuln stacks for days and what a drag they are on my healer DPS. Why is that?

IKR =(

I used to feel like gnawing the corner of my desk off in A11S at times, people messing up vines in O3S is also a great one for raising the blood pressure =(

[gti443]

Healer aoe damage is ridiculously good, but ST damage isn't.

In terms of burst Cleric Stance + Presence of Mind + Stone spam is a good time.

In a perfect world even a Savage geared AST could do something like ~2500 but our DPS is zero sum. If you're in Defiance and doing enmity rotation you're still getting hits in; when we're healing we're not.

Btw, I love how this conversation dominates literally every thread in this subforum, but somehow discussions never wind up being about all the tanks who just eat Vuln stacks for days and what a drag they are on my healer DPS. Why is that?

That's kind of the thing with healer DPS... you gotta pass me the rock if you expect me to take it to the hoop.

[Penthea]

Btw, I love how this conversation dominates literally every thread in this subforum, but somehow discussions never wind up being about all the tanks who just eat Vuln stacks for days and what a drag they are on my healer DPS. Why is that?

Because people who don't know enough about healing tend to assume low healer dps = lazy player.