MCH 6 GCD in Wildfire

[Kitfox]

You're not supposed to get 6 gcds into WF, only OH. To get 6 gcds into WF, you need 2300+ skill speed which isn't worth the trade off of other stats.

[Fannah]

Yea, I think it's not worth, which is why Fey Wind is nice.
Just in case, to quote myself from another thread (all min-max value tested) :

Base skill speed lvl 70 = 364
min-max --> current GCD (gap between min-max)
364-380 --> 2.50s (16)
381-447 --> 2.49s (66)
448-514 --> 2.48s (66)
515-580 --> 2.47s (65)
581-647 --> 2.46s (66)
648-714 --> 2.45s (66)
715-781 --> 2.44s (66)
782-848 --> 2.43s (66)
849-914 --> 2.42s (66)
915-981 --> 2.41s (66)
982-1048 --> 2.40s (66)
1049-1115 --> 2.39s (66)
1116-1181 --> 2.38s (65)
1182-1248 --> 2.37s (66) (theorically should be 1182-1248, I can't just get 1249 for now)
1250-1315 --> 2.36s (theorically should be 1249-1315)
1316-1382 --> 2.35s (theorically should be 1316-1382, I can't get 1383, but 1384 is 100% 2.34s)
1383+ --> 2.34s

If Ari can get 6 GCD with 2.48GCD and the 3% less GCD from Fey Wind, you don't need to reach like 2300+ (I guess you actually meant 1300+ x) )

[Fisherman-Fizz]

The 6 GCD wildfire thing should be a visual bug. WF is not getting 6 GCDs in game as there isn't enough time without significant supposed. I believe the window for wildfire actually closes a tiny bit before 10 seconds and that might be why it looks different in logs, but it's only a guess.

6 GCD Overheat is only possible by using FT near the end of the oGCD window and having 0 clipping or lag. Wildfire doesn't work this same way so it should only have 5 GCDs.

Either way all of this stuff is pretty ridiculous and shouldn't even be a thing because it just punishes anyone without very low latency.

[MauvaisOeil]

Simple question : Was it your last Split shot not accounted, or the first one due to WF+splitshot not registering the first hit taken ?

(If fey wind is the answer, it's still a bit sad that WF damage get so much conditionned by composition. 6 GCd means 20% more GCD and even if they aren't the only contributors to WF damage, it's probably around 10% more, WF damage overall )

[Fannah]

MauvaisOeil, it's only the last one which is not taken in count, and I'm sure about it, the calculation makes it obvious, especially knowing even the auto attack coming when we land Wildfire is taken in count, and this one arrives before the 1rst GCD. But don't hesitate to tell me what made you think so.

Tested, at 2.40, 6GCD but it's very hard (I only succeeded once..., and after all the tons of tries I did, I kinda start to believe it actually didn't even happen...)
Even at 2.35 it sometimes fails, sometimes works...

Technically, 6 GCD is done in 9.5sec with Rapid Fire

The 1rst GCD is done at 0sec, then thx Rapid Fire, the 3 first attacks will have a 1.5sec GCD, so :
1rst shot at 0.0sec
2nd shot at 1.5sec
3rd shot at 3.0sec
4th shot at 4.5sec
5th shot at 7sec
6th shot at 9.5sec

Now we have the animation of Wildfire + start of the GCD to take in count. Let's say 1 oGCD = 0.5sec, the problem is coming from the animation start of a GCD.
And we only have 2 GCD affected by Skill Speed. So we need those few GCD points to send informations in time to the server so it got we did them.

Too much details for something which actually seems to be made on purpose.
I believe the problem is at the very end when we send the information to the server. We send data to the server at like 9.85sec to say "we did X dmg", and at 10.05sec, it gets the message, so for it it's too late as it sent us already at 10.0s the informations of Wildfire's dmg without that last dmg which already appeared at 9.85 on our screen, so before the Wildfire. Which explains why we see dmg before the Wildfire but the dmg are not taken in count.
And I guess their personnal pro testers don't have those delay problems, so they must have 6GCD way more easily than us. Which could explain why SE don't have the same point of view nor numbers than players.

Edit : I tested Fey Wind with 2.48GCD, I get 2.40GCD after.

[AmandaLashaquoa]

After reading this thread, I started actually counting and trying to fit 6GCD in my OH's, it seems pretty impossible to me on 295ms~ (280ms is the best I can get in a JP server so changing servers won't help).
Sadly it seems like I am unable to play a great MCH, I can HARDLY fit 5gcd(i need to rapid fire before OH) in my OH's and 4GCD is without struggle or too much "double weaving" (if I even know what is double weave with 295ms).
I VPNs were actually magical.

[MauvaisOeil]

MauvaisOeil, it's only the last one which is not taken in count, and I'm sure about it, the calculation makes it obvious, especially knowing even the auto attack coming when we land Wildfire is taken in count, and this one arrives before the 1rst GCD. But don't hesitate to tell me what made you think so.

I just try to get the simpliest answer if possible. If the last shot is burnt during the wildfire windows, might it be the first one not taken into account ? Since the trouble it brings make you rethink how the server interact with the player's computer, I just try an other way of thinking.

[Fannah]

Thank you, but yea, as even the base attack landed right before the Wildfire is taken in count, then that 1rst split shot is taken in count too, and mathematically, if you calculate it, it works with this auto attack and the 1rst split shot, so no, it can't make a difference of suddenly 25% of a base attack.

In the end, that server explanation seems the most logical to me. Which is kinda unfair and... well, how to not be offensive... not-smart design "you, you and you, you will be able to 6 GCD in your rotation with 2.40GCD. But you, you and you (and you and you and you...), you won't be able to even do it with 2.35GCD" (which represent a ton of skill speed stats).

When we see people looking at high scores on things like fflogs, I believe no one other class do have such difference because of such mechanic (and of course people won't try overall to do it if the server connection is making problems... game designers are supposed to do things also mathematically, and this one is way too accurate to know what people are supposed to do, and it's unfair if some are then able to do more than others because of that).

[MauvaisOeil]

I agree, but I don't think they thought that far. The designed a mechanic they think is working as intended, but the 6GCD wildfire could, for them, only happen with high SkS as an invest of points toward this achievement. But not due to minimal ping.

I can't personally fit 6gcd in my WF, only 6 in my overheat, at most (not even sure, since my first clean shot triggering OH is not accounted, that means I only dish split/clean and 3 CD in overheat. Quite meh, then.)

I believe it's our very own "mudra lag".

[Lastelli]

You're overreacting for an insignificant matter. As I already said that 6th gcd is a non heated split shot with the barrel off penalty. This means it's only a 160 potency weaponskill while the average potency of the other weaponskills you use during wildfire is close to 300. This is ignoring richochet, gauss round and the fact that you have a sure crit thanks to reassemble. The difference is minuscule and it only applies to the very first wildfire since you won't have fey wind after that anyway, and you won't have it even there if you don't have a sch in your party. You'd be gaining 40 potency in your first wildfire session only when a wildfire session is around 3500 total base potency. No big deal. I don't even know if that'd account for 5 more dps by the end of the fight...

Oh, and of course this isn't even remotely comparable to how much mudra lag affects nin dps for those players with very high ping (150+ ms).