Paladin too overpowered, nerf their damage output!

[Dortharl]

This should hopefully get moved to the Tank section so it can share space with the other War cry nerf threads. So much misinformation and hyperbole, if PLD do get a DMG nerf it wont be because of rubbish like this.

SE use actual numbers to balance classes not ridiculous anecdotal evidence with no factual basis.

[Madepossible]

Something to think of:

There is a huge difference between the Triple Fell Cleave combo vs. today's Hexa Cleave.

Heavenward's Triple FC Rotation:
1.5 minute CD, required 4 stacks as Zerk generated the 5th, 1 stack generating CD (RI aligns perfectly) and Infuriate (which is delayed by 50% of its CD). Outside of this window, you liberally FC at 5 stacks. And since the stacks were on a timer, you wanted to spend them anyways.

In this scenario, Berserk was stronger, the majority of your DPS graph is high with even higher spikes. The disparity between the low points and the high points exists, but isn't too big that the loss of a berserk window wouldn't suddenly kill your DPS.

[Madepossible]

Here is part 2

Stormblood's Hexa Cleave:
2 Minute CD, Need 100 Guage available, Infuriate, 1 GCD to fit in Upheaval, and outside of your berserk you CANNOT spend gauge on Fell Cleave as you barely generate enough to have 120, 20 of which is reserved for Upheaval.

In this scenario, your DPS graphis really low, with very high spikes. The disparity between your low point and high point is much higher to the degree that losing any of hte high points lowers your overall DPS too much.

[ServerCollaps]

WAR's have always been the "DPS" of the tanks to make up for their low defense

thats bull, they always compensated that 1:1 with more max hp and more heal obtained. On top of that they have a 20% cd every few seconds which makes them more viable maintanks than paladins are

did I mention that they can insta switch stances? pala always loses gcds for that

[Tint]

PLD is clearly OP compared to the other tanks.

but that's a problem in how yoshi wants to see this class, how it was in reality and how the people play the class.

PLD design is the defense fortress.

he was lacking this in 3.0 because of his physical centered defense toolkit. they fixed that now, so PLD can tank any damage fine - what he should, as the defense fortress.
he also has skills to protect his party, also fine as the defense fortress tank.
but now the dps. we know all that defense fortress stuff is absolutely useless when it comes to the tight dps checks in the game. the players will find a way to play without that defense, they always will, especially when any tank combo should be viable. when any tank should be able to tank the content, then PLD sits in the dame boat as WHM: you don't need that defense. and if you don't need something you get rid of it to get something else you need more: damage in this regard.

if you nerf the PLD dps, PLD is back to his 3.0 state. if you nerf is defense and utility PLD will los his class identity as defense fortress. but even if you buff WAR and DRK to PLD lvl, PLD may lose some of his class identity, since everyone is a defense fortress then. but i think that would be the best way, since we are tanks, we all can be defense fortress, that's our job at least...

[Madepossible]

And part 3

So the biggest difference between 3.x and 4.x is that you FC whenever available back in HW, but now you do NOT want to touch FC outside of zerk window. Making our average potency out of burst window a joke. Add this with intentionally choosing to use the 20 potency lower combo of Storm Path instead of Butcher Block to generate gauge faster, further lowering your average potency.

This issue existed for PLD in heavensward where Fight or Flight was your biggest damage "burst", but it couldn't save your average low potency. And you personally were arguing with me about this particular point when my argument was PLD's DPS was "fine" and its issues lied in everything else that further caused the low DPS.

[Madepossible]

Then last part:

The reason why PLD can out DPS the other two tanks now is that at any given moment, it is operating under a heavy damage buff. You're either under Requiescat window where you are literally nuking with Holy Spirit, the PLD's "Fell Cleave" if you may, or you are under Fight or Flight and dishing out 25% more damage on your already higher than WAR base potency combos. You have literally just under 10 seconds of unbuffed damage which you can easily push into down time phases as there is no actual resource that you need to condition well before hand. You're literally bursting the entire fight.

[Ceasaria]

In Heavensward, I remember a video showing WAR solo the last 10% of boss (Calofisteri, I guess) from raid 24 (Mhach), when everybody else was dead.
Let PLD have its moment of glory to change.

[SokiYagami]

While everyone's arguing whether PLD or WAR should be the top tank, me and my DRK brethren are sitting at a corner drawing circles on the wall like an emo edgelord.

PLD and WAR both feel fine. It's nice to have PLD feel useful and WAR to finally feel like a proper tank rather than a really tanky dps.

DRK....yeah....the best word I could use to describe it is "hollow". It feels almost disconnected from what damage it does. What self-healing DRK has just doesn't feel reliable enough compared to what options PLD and WAR have, and the only way I can still suitably tank with a WHM healer is to take as much damage as possible and stand in every bad AoE just so they'll stop stun-locking mobs with Holy and so Blood Price can be usable. Just kinda hoping it gets better past 60, but right now, DRK just feels so hollow.

SB DRK isn't complete until you hit 70 and learn The Blackest Night.

[Malkomia]

i witnessed a PLD (70) take on ifrit extreme solo (unsynced). may not sound like a big deal, but seeing this particular PLD brush off ifrit's damage with more than a few self-heals and ending the battle with more than 80% health was enough to convince me that something was wrong.

Wow great. He beated a boss that is far lower than himself...
I beated Titan EX Solo unsynched as PLD (70). That is not a big deal anymore...
The big deal was the WAR (60) solo Titan EX unsynched in HW