Paladin too overpowered, nerf their damage output!

[Umbeliel]

sniparoonie

I do want to underline that most of us who have been complaining the most frequently about warrior have been complaining about dark Knight too. It's not an either or argument, but we're probably warrior mains so there's probably more intimate knowledge and involvement there.

I am absolutely happy with Paladin as it is now, and I'd like if all three tanks were as well designed both in terms of feel(identity and gameplay) and capability(bringing something of value that isn't "not a paladin" while also not being awful. Only one of those have been achieved by this point.)

[Fernosaur]

I do want to underline that most of us who have been complaining the most frequently about warrior have been complaining about dark Knight too. It's not an either or argument, but we're probably warrior mains so there's probably more intimate knowledge and involvement there.

I am absolutely happy with Paladin as it is now, and I'd like if all three tanks were as well designed both in terms of feel(identity and gameplay) and capability(bringing something of value that isn't "not a paladin" while also not being awful. Only one of those have been achieved by this point.)

I totally understand the complaints too, don't get me wrong. I was a SCH main throughout HW, and dropped the job in favor of PLD after 4.0 because the vanilla version at release was just that bad. I've picked it up as a frequently played secondary after the changes tho. I also thought WHM was in a terrible spot at the very start of SB, which proved to be a rather uninformed opinion, as seen once the raid tier was actually released.

I mean to say that the situation is similar because there's still WHM players who are dead set on insisting that WHM is dead, even though it was super dominant for early progression for top groups and will continue to be dominant for midcore groups as more clears keep pouring in. Sure, WHM is gonna fall out of fashion with high level farms because you simply can't beat the efficiency of AST+SCH, but WHM had and will always have its spot for raiding, hopefully in future tiers as well.

I think a similar, albeit technically opposite situation is happening with WAR at the moment. It wasn't particularly preferred for early progression in a big part due to the bad rep the job got from the release version, but will slowly gain more traction due to the higher DPS, as slight as this advantage may be at the moment. I think as time passes this gap will start to widen a bit more too.

As for flavor and identity, that's a little bit harder, I suppose. I feel like if you ask the average WAR main what the identity of WAR really is, the image of the old HW WAR will come to mind, which was basically a one-man-army that can do literally everything at the same time. That... would be a terrible idea. That said, what would you say is an identity for WAR that could be conveyed through sensible changes to the current Skill design and iterations? Seeing how it's unlikely that the job will see more dramatic changes in the future, at least. I personally feel like Inner Release is pretty flavorful both in looks and functionality, but a lot of people have numerous qualms with how it centralizes the job's rotation.

Can't sing the same praises for DRK, though. I don't feel like DRK has any ounce of uniqueness or identity native to the way the job's toolkit looks or works. Perhaps the Drain effects should be more prevalescent throughout all of their skills? I don't know.

[Umbeliel]

snip snop the witch is dead

To the point of "what would I like"- I've said it in other threads too, but ultimately I don't actually care. Kind of.

My issue is largely that I want -some kind of identity- that isn't "2~3% dps over pld" and absolutely nothing else. What do you take a Warrior for? LB gauge and dubiously noticable dps difference is not a good enough answer. What does a Warrior do that other tanks don't? What do they provide to the party? Right now, the answer is nothing.

How we get it doesn't matter to me. A set and forget tank b/c high self sustain? Sure. Significantly higher dps(ala samurai/blm vs other dps)? I don't actually want that, but if it's clear and an absolute part of what a Warrior is supposed to be by design, sure. Tank bard w/party buffs? Sure idc. What's important is that something is there.

[cgbspender]

Yeah, nerf ! Spamming the same skill over and over isn't right. But I hadn't realized clemency does damage though.

#deleteclemencyholic.

[MauvaisOeil]

Same reason as to why a BOW AND ARROW (Bard) can deal more damage than BULLETS (machinist) lol.

Look at Overwatch, Hanzo can 1 shot people in the face with an arrow, but Reaper, who has shotguns, cannot 1 shot people in the face.

Why? Video game logic lol. It doesn't have to make sense, just accept it.

Reaper can one shot almost any people in the face, even in chest for weaker characters.

[Deceptus]

I'll never understand why MMO communities want classes brought down instead of the other classes brought up.

Misery loves company I guess.

[MauvaisOeil]

I'll never understand why MMO communities want classes brought down instead of the other classes brought up.

Misery loves company I guess.

Because scalling by up mean a neverending ladder of buffs to every low dps job, which will break any range of anything overtime, trivializing content and forcing designers to constantly push the needs higher than they should for fresh content to be challenging.

While bringing classes where they should be, by ups or nerfs, will leave content relevant at it's power level.

[TouchandFeel]

I'll never understand why MMO communities want classes brought down instead of the other classes brought up.

Misery loves company I guess.

Well, from a developer perspective as well as some players, it is due to the fact that jobs in a MMO are not only balanced against each other but also against the content.
If the solution to fixing balance issue between jobs is to always scale upwards with buffs it creates a situation of constant power creep which inevitably results in the jobs becoming out of balance with the content which is just as bad if not worse of a situation than the jobs being out of sync.
While I know that nobody wants to see their precious baby (the job they play) nerfed, it is unfortunately necessary sometimes to maintain the greater balance.

But I will agree that often times cries for nerfs are more based on people feeling upset and wanting to piss in other people's punch.

P.S. I'm not advocating for nerfs in this instance, just saying why they are necessary at times.

[SyzzleSpark]

Out of sheer morbid curiosity...

On a scale of 1-to-WAR, how angry are PLD mains that this thread exists and is getting posted on still? I honestly haven't been keeping up.

[MauvaisOeil]

Because there would be no point using any two handers or dual weapons if it gave nothing except the loss of a shield defensive value.

Mmorpg and video games are based on a logic that doesn't defy basic physic rules.

Of course magic comes and game design adapt things. Because games with no logic and magical nonsense put everywhere are underplayed korean games, at most.

The game wouldn t be played with no common sense or logic. Because players would just be "wtf".