MCH buffs!

[Xygoz]

Why cant we compare reprisal to dismantle? they are the same and ANY tank can take it, if dismantle was unique to MCH it would be different but the fact that any tank can get the same skill with no real lose is a big deal.The Fact that it is a JOB skill and not an role action means it should be better, and yet it is on the same level. I didn't say it invalidates dismantle but it lowers the value of MCH. "catching up" is the key here as I said couple posts ago Bard can still out dps a mch with it rng its hard to balance around this, and if we really want to get into it mch is much more punishing if you mess up or don't have a nice ping.

[RLofOBFL]

Dismantle/Reprisal are often up for heavy raid wide AOE. Take Sus ex's Ukehi, Lakshimi ex's Strotom, O1s's Roar or Blaze, O2s's Gravity waves, and O3s's Dimensional waves, O4s's Almagest. Dismantle can help mitigate nearly every one with a 1 min Dismantle CD. And do I have to repeat myself, it STACKS with reprisal for 20% damage reduction. In fights like that where damage is absolutely insane, someone may not be topped off, and it saves raids from wipes. I have seen it many times.

I am not arguing that MCH support is better but Dismantle is most definitely better than Troubadour. The only time I think Troubadour can win is in long continuous damage phases. O4s soft enrage for example is actually the only time I can think of. A8s soft enrage too I guess. Otherwise Dismantle is extremely versatile and can mitigate 3 heavy hit/tank busters in the same time. Tanks having it has nothing to do with it. That means more mitigation. Since it STACKS.

[Xygoz]

And do I have to repeat myself Reprisal is MORE then enough to mitigate the ae's you are talking about, and since we are talking about these AoE's lets add in the fact that there is Feint and Addle in the game that all melee and caster have access to as well that can also help mitigate the Aoe's. Stop over selling the skill its an ok skill for sure, but your raid is NOT and ill say it again NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT going to miss it....

The point is its not enough to make you want to take a mch over a bard, and again ill say what I have many times now this is totally acceptable but only if Mch has dps over bard otherwise there is no trade off for its lack of support.

[RLofOBFL]

Stop over selling the skill its an ok skill for sure, but your raid is NOT and ill say it again NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT going to miss it....

No one is gonna miss Natures Minne or Troubadour either....And all of those skills make BRD's defense useless too. What's your point? MCH's defensive utility is better than BRD's. That's ALL I'm saying.

Offensively, MCH just needs an equivalent to the 100% uptime 2% crit and battle voice. Maybe the Turret could give a 2% DH up while its out and MCH could have a 10% crit up for 20 seconds on a 2 min CD to even it out.

[Aletin]

And do I have to repeat myself Reprisal is MORE then enough to mitigate the ae's you are talking about, and since we are talking about these AoE's lets add in the fact that there is Feint and Addle in the game that all melee and caster have access to as well that can also help mitigate the Aoe's.

Sure, reprisal is enough, so dismantle is not needed, but at the same time, that applies to troubadour. If reprisal is enough so dismantle isn't necessary, why would troubadour be necessary?
The point stands that comparing dismantle to troubadour, dismantle is more reliable as it doesn\\'t rely on the current song, and can mitigate more things, because of the associated cool down. The only benefit troubadour has is the duration, which if used at the same points as dismantle, would at most help with auto attacks, and that's only if it's on Warden's Paean, the least useful of the troubadour effects

[Xygoz]

Agreed, value wise you still get more from a bard which is why the scale is the way it is atm. unless MCH dps is high enough to off set the support it lacks which again is really hard to do without touching bard because of how rng there dps can be.

The changes are on the right track for the most part but it still needs more dps IMO.

[Aletin]

Agreed, value wise you still get more from a bard which is why the scale is the way it is atm. unless MCH dps is high enough to off set the support it lacks which again is really hard to do without touching bard because of how rng there dps can be.

BRD utility (crit increase and battle voice) has an overall rDPS increase of about 2% while MCH (Hypercharge) is about 1.15%
Taking an average rDPS of 28 000-30 000. The difference is 238-255DPS.
As of pre-4.06 MCH was more or less equal to BRD in personal DPS.
This means that given these buffs if MCH can do 200-300 more DPS than BRD, it becomes the better choice. However we need a couple weeks for that to even out and see what new MCH is capable of.

[photometrik]

After messing around with MCH a little more, I've kinda found a rotation that works for me. Is it optimal? Probably not, but it works for me and I'll make little changes here and there to bring it in line with what everyone else is doing as I get more comfortable with the rotation and specific fight mechanics. At this point, the only thing that I'm hoping they do is increase the potency of Flamethrower, revert Split Shot, Slug Shot, Clean Shot, and Hot Shot back to their old heat generation (10 instead of 5), and fix Gauss Barrel so that it doesn't fall off after overheating (I honestly believe this to be completely arbitrary and unnecessary). I'd also like to see more support to be equivalent to BRD, or just more DPS to put us slightly above BRD in raw damage. One or the other. Other than that, I'm pretty comfortable with the way things are right now.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

You know, I was gonna say MCH doesn't need a passive crit or DH buff, but I completely forgot the turrets! If the turrets had a passive like that, that could work, though it'd conflict a little with detonating them.

[QQKachoo]

Now that it is confirmed we need to OH in WF. I don't think there is any way for me to optimally play MCH in it's current state. My latency is a bit too high to fit 6 GCDs into that window. Looks like I will be playing bard for a bit until my latency improves or that dps window becomes a bit more forgiving.