4.06 patch notes up

**Shurrikhan** · 08-10-2017 06:28 AM

Originally Posted by Jhett_Magnum

I feel like people are forgetting that SMN is still tied to ACN. I think it's the fact that if you buff SMN it indirectly buffs SCH.

This is only true if you want the changes to be active when synced below level 30. All else can be adjusted with job traits and job skills at 30+.

**Jhett_Magnum** · 08-10-2017 06:38 AM

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

This is only true if you want the changes to be active when synced below level 30. All else can be adjusted with job traits and job skills at 30+.

They share the same traits as well. SE is planning on ridding classes soon. SMNs getting an overhaul.

**Sunako** · 08-10-2017 07:41 AM

Originally Posted by Jhett_Magnum

They share the same traits as well. SE is planning on ridding classes soon. SMNs getting an overhaul.

Not all traits are shared.

**Dark-Saviour** · 08-10-2017 07:47 AM

Originally Posted by Jhett_Magnum

SE is planning on ridding classes soon.

Hadn't heard about that, but that's sad.
I liked the concept of what they'd tried to do with Arcanist (split paths), and dislike the direction they took with all the new class-less jobs. :-(

Granted, I've never been fond of a lot of the specifics (they mixed their magic classes up too much. Conjurer's original description sounds more like Black Mage, Thaumaturge's original description sounds more like the Biomancy facets of Arcanist or even White Mage, and I'm nor really sure why Arcanist ended up being some split Biomancy/Summoner thing in the first place), but still...

That said, doing something like Musketeer->Machinist + Sniper, Archer-> Bard(?) + Ranger, Conjurer->Black Mage (or White Mage if we must) + Geomancer, etc. would be a lot more interesting to me.
And having advanced jobs even beyond that (WHM + BLM unlocks the path for RDM, etc.) could be fun too, but they even went so far as to strip out the cross-class system. :-/

Biomancer->Scholar/Doctor + Plague-Bringer would have been great too, but eh... :-(

**Shurrikhan** · 08-10-2017 08:58 AM

Originally Posted by Dark-Saviour

Hadn't heard about that, but that's sad.
I liked the concept of what they'd tried to do with Arcanist (split paths), and dislike the direction they took with all the new class-less jobs. :-(

Granted, I've never been fond of a lot of the specifics (they mixed their magic classes up too much. Conjurer's original description sounds more like Black Mage, Thaumaturge's original description sounds more like the Biomancy facets of Arcanist or even White Mage, and I'm nor really sure why Arcanist ended up being some split Biomancy/Summoner thing in the first place), but still...

Until 1.2, Thaumaturge was more of a shadow priest / ritualist DoT class who uses Astral/Umbral magic (and tended to be the stronger healer and saboteur), and Conjurer uses all six elements as a synergist elementalist theme of caster (and tended, outside of certain levels, to be the stronger caster DPS). Although most relevant lore was removed and then replaced with ARR, traces still remain from prior to Yoshida's decision to scrap these entire design concepts just so he'd have a smoother base for Black Mage and White Mage respectively.

I, too, actually really like the idea of split jobs—Conjurer > Geomancer, Rogue > Thief, Archer > Ranger, etc, if only because the bastardized legacy of the armory system that we have now might well otherwise excuse the refusal to ever, say, play around with the elemental aspects promised by a Conjurer or inherent in early White Mage play (lest they replace every light-side elemental spell with simply Astral magic) simply because there's "already a job/weapon for that". Such systematic refusal does nothing but waste assets and drive future designs into corners. And what's the alternative, to give Geomancers bells and Ranger "rifles" (removing every long-ish gun from machinists), and Thieves... sickles? For what advantage? You could require jobs from the same class to be leveled separately, acting as a new class that requires the former at level x to start, rather than a mask over the class. Every single skill can be adjusted for each branch job separately, even skills prior to the level at which the job is acquired, so I really don't understand what's so wrong about classes that Yoshida feels the need to remove them, just to make it so that we all start, from the very moment we pick up a rusty shortsword (usually from the gladiator guild), as a member of a traditional monarchical vanguard of waning importance and loyalties and vague connection to Holy magics, despite learning from anyone and everyone with a sword (generally gladiators) for the first 30 levels and having zero connection to Holy Magics for the first 50 to 58 levels.

**Shurrikhan** · 08-10-2017 08:54 AM

Originally Posted by Jhett_Magnum

They share the same traits as well. SE is planning on ridding classes soon. SMNs getting an overhaul.

They share six traits. The remaining five to six are not shared.

I was mistaken previously; they actually don't even share all traits prior to level 30. Enhanced Mind is given to Scholars at level 20. It is NOT shared with Summoner. Thus a job could alter the effects of even a level 1 ability for its job with no impact on other jobs stemming from the same class, even when either job is synced below the point of acquiring the job (i.e. below level 30).

tl;dr: There is absolutely no remaining restriction to their ability to balance all Arcanist skills separately for Scholar and Summoner.

**Jhett_Magnum** · 08-10-2017 03:04 PM

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

tl;dr: There is absolutely no remaining restriction to their ability to balance all Arcanist skills separately for Scholar and Summoner.

I didn't mean all traits. SCH can't reach its full potential because it's barred from Corruption Mastery II. If you recall they gave them Miasma back but it wouldn't have been necessary if SMN had split to begin with. Banes potency nerf happened because SMN and SCH shared it. Yet you want to trait everything and I'm saying you might as well just remake the job. Apparently I can't get the benefit of the doubt and have to explain that I know the difference between INT and MIND.

**kikix12** · 08-10-2017 05:41 PM

Originally Posted by Jhett_Magnum

I didn't mean all traits. SCH can't reach its full potential because it's barred from Corruption Mastery II. If you recall they gave them Miasma back but it wouldn't have been necessary if SMN had split to begin with. Banes potency nerf happened because SMN and SCH shared it. Yet you want to trait everything and I'm saying you might as well just remake the job. Apparently I can't get the benefit of the doubt and have to explain that I know the difference between INT and MIND.

Bane was nerfed most likely because Scholar was getting it, not because Summoner was getting it. That means that Miasma II would still be very much necessary. To begin with, Scholars needed a reusable AoE anyway, and Bane does NOT fit that bill. Astrologian have Gravity while White Mage have Holy and to a lesser extent Aero III (it's basic 50 potency attack still can be used for extra damage even when the DoT's are already on the enemy).

Offensive aspects from Arcanist were nerfed because people complained about Scholars outperforming other healers especially in DPS, among others. And for Scholars, almost everything DPS-related comes from Arcanist. Because someone decided to make a healer job evolve from a DPS job...

**MOthe** · 08-10-2017 08:31 PM

I'm done with Summoner (after playing with it since 2.0).

The actual smn is a mess, so many flaws and incomplete systems (like egi-glamours), no real gameplay identidy, nerfs and changes because it shares the same class as Scholar...

I'll be waiting a revamp as they did with Bard. That is sad because i love Summoner, in every FF game (in FFXIV too)

**Bourne_Endeavor** · 08-10-2017 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by Jhett_Magnum

They share the same traits as well. SE is planning on ridding classes soon. SMNs getting an overhaul.

So... what? Summoner mains are left twisting in the winds for two years because the devs didn't prioritize splitting it away from Arcanist? If that is the case, just delete Summoner or Scholar. It's absurd we'll have to put up with a subpar job for the whole of an expansion because the devs don't want Scholar to overtake the other healers again.

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